Episode #16 : In conversation with Kizomba Teacher Nemanja Sonero

SOUND BITES

"I really love life."
"Capoeira was a big love of mine."
"Kizomba is a moving meditation."
"The basic step is the first thing you learn."
"Kizomba taught me to be more sensitive."
"I love to teach the most."
"People are hungry for knowledge."
"She's already dancing."
"Dancing is one of the most natural things."
"Kizomba has a life of its own."
"The future of Kizomba is going to be unique."
"Let's bring on the mess and figure it out."
"A dancer is an artist."
"We are all the same on the dance floor."

TRANSCRIPT

Speaker 1 (00:11.246)

Hello Kizomba Enthusiasts and welcome back to another episode of Kizomba Conversations. As always, I'm your host Victor and today we are joined by another super guest. We have a person who's been dancing for over 24 years, been dancing things such as Hip Hop, Salsa, Tango, Ballet, and of course Kizomba. He's an absolute great joy to watch on the dance floor and has his own unique style. So let's welcome Mr. Nemanja to the podcast. Nemanja, thank you. How are you doing?

Hello, sir. Good day. Thank you for the invite. I'm doing really well. had a good day, quality, productive day. So I'm ready to have a beautiful conversation with you about Kizomba.

Fantastic and likewise, thank you for appearing on the podcast. You've got so much experience, so much knowledge, and we're excited about learning from you all about dance and movement. I call you the movement master or master of movement because you've studied so many different styles. That's my nickname for you. Thank you. So we're to get into that. So as you know, Nemanja, we want to find out a bit more about our guests before we delve into Kizomba. So anything in terms of your

background that you might want to share with us. You know, people, some people are not necessarily going to know you or know who you are or what you're about. So are you able to express that to us so we can get a feel for who you are?

Yeah, that's always an interesting question. Who am I? How to respond that? I like to say I really love life. So I'm lover of life. And my background is vast. So I would put myself in the category of a general generalist rather than specialist. And I would maybe even say I specialize in generalism.

Speaker 2 (02:01.664)

So there's of course a few directions which I took in my life where I put more energy than other directions. That means also in the dancing and martial arts. So that was my focus early age. And I remember as a kid, even I loved martial arts. I was watching every single Chinese, Japanese movie I could get my hands on. And there I find the spark that initiated my love for movement because martial arts for me is a

is movement, is embodiment of possibilities, what the body can do for perhaps a different purpose than dance, but still it's movement and using the body in connection to the mind, to the spirit. So martial arts was a big love of mine for a long time. And then 1998, I believe, I got to know Capoeira, Brazilian martial art. It's called originally Capoeira Angola. So it's the traditional form of Capoeira.

And my brother took me there because he saw I was going into a bit of a wrong direction, wrong crowds, wrong kids, and so on and so on. So he took me to Capoeira without even knowing what it is. And I remember the first moment I saw it, I heard the music. There was singing in the space. There was all these instruments. There was movement. There was martial arts. There was spirit. I felt spirit and perhaps God in my own way.

And that would be, I would say, the main entry point for me to enter martial arts and dancing more professionally. And yeah, I would say that would be a beginning point, more serious point.

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. And yeah, martial arts, obviously in terms of movement, helps you move your body. But interesting around your Capoeira because it's almost, if I'm not mistaken, so Capoeira, maybe why it got to you so much because it's, it's almost like a dance, right? So you're dancing, but you're fighting at the same time. Am I correct in saying that?

Speaker 2 (04:10.99)

So in short, it's a mix of various things. So Capoeira, because of the colonization and the transatlantic slavery route from mainly West Africa to Brazil, there was a lot of different tribes in different nations that were brought from Africa, including also Angola. So that's why it's called Capoeira Angola, because it originates from there. And so a lot of the movements and the dancing part comes from

dance of the zebras, as they call it in Angola. it's more like a dance, like a mating dance between two people, a man and a woman. And so when they brought it to Brazil, the slaves in the night after work around the fire to, of course, they were plotting to find a way to escape the slave masters to set themselves free, but to practice the martial art because there was a certain form in Angola. To this day, actually, it exists.

So to speak.

Speaker 2 (05:09.578)

It doesn't look, it looks similar to Capoeira, but it's not Capoeira, like a martial art. So they started to combine the dance with the movement. So the slave owners think they're just enjoying themselves, but actually they were practicing. And so over time, as they got better and better, they kind of created a revolution from it. And one by one, they start to escaping into the jungles, creating their own, they call them senzales, little communities.

Interesting.

Speaker 2 (05:38.496)

And Capoeira was the liberation that helped them, that strength, the power to the tradition in connection still to the tradition that helped them escape slavery, being a slave. So that's what I love about Capoeira, it compensates the music, again, the tradition, very deep tradition, the language, the movement, the dance, the martial arts. So it's still a martial art, but it is also a dance.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's great. So thank you for sharing that. I'm always interested to find out people's backgrounds and that's great history lesson there in terms of what you just said about Capoeira. So, and it all links in with movement and dance and that's why we're here.

All right. So let's talk about dance in terms of why we're here and a specific dance, Kizomba. So I know that you are, you you're a great dancer, great teacher, seen you, you know, perform, you dance online.

and it just looks good. love the movement that you bring to this dance. So what I want to find out from you, Nemanja, is where did it start? Okay, so where did you find Kizomba? Tell us that story.

Well, originally in Serbia, Belgrade, where I used to live, after Capoeira, I started to get interested in other forms of dance. So I started to study Salsa, Bachata, Afro-Cuban. I was really obsessed with that and any form of Afro-Brazilian, Afro-Cuban traditions. And through Salsa, I started to become also a DJ. So I started 2000...

Two or three I started to DJ to create Salsa parties, Bachata parties. And I remember at one venue that we had, we had suddenly more and more Africans coming to the party, which back then in Serbia was a bit unusual. We didn't have a lot of people from abroad, mostly in the embassy. So the people who came to the party were actually from the embassy. And also I was a big fan of African music, especially Fela Kuti, Femi Kuti and other.

Speaker 2 (07:42.954)

amazing musicians that a lot back then. So I started to speak to them, to this gentleman and ladies who were coming and they started to share one is from Nigeria, one is from Angola, one is from here, one is from there and I became friends with them. And one of them, his name was Fula, he was from the Angolan embassy and we became friends and he invited me to his place and he said, why don't you play more this kind of music on the party? I was like, well, it doesn't really fit the Salsa Bachata frame.

He's like, why don't you play Semba? And I was like, Semba? You mean Samba? He's like, no, no, Semba. And I knew Samba. I know how to dance it and how to play it already. He said, no, no, Semba. Semba is the origin of Samba. And I remember he burned on a CD, like videos from Angola. Like I forgot already which artist, but I remember the girls dancing in the background. The singer was singing so.

I got to know Semba as a musical style, but also as a dance a little bit in that period. So 2003, 2004, sometimes a mix years, but let's say that period. so I started to, because of course I already had Capoeira, Capoeira Angola. So already I learned a lot about Angola. I knew the history, knew the civil war. I knew the daytime, I knew the language already. So this was very interesting for me to start to connect the dots like between the culture and the dance.

So.

Later on, two years after, think 2005-ish, if I'm not mistaken, I met a local dancer, her name is Jasna, and she was one of the first who actually started to bring Kizomba to Serbia because she went to Portugal and she started to train with Benjamin Nande, who's actually the first teacher to bring Kizomba outside of Portugal into Europe. So through her, I started to get Kizomba more.

Speaker 1 (09:37.55)

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:42.056)

And I was not so interested in the moment, I was like, okay, what is this? So then through her and then through him, because she brought him to Serbia, started to, I took some classes and so that was my initiation into Kizomba more deeper. But yeah, Semba I would say was the first. Capoeira and then Semba and then Kizomba.

Yeah. We can't talk about Kizomba without Semba, right? yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Right. Beautiful dance, Semba is Semba. OK, so that's that is fantastic. So then you find Kizomba. You didn't like it as much. You said he wasn't interested in as much at the time, but then you started to get into it. So what you know, how did you start to get into it? How did that come about in terms of what was the feeling that you were getting? And then, you know, why were you liking it so much? And, you know, you dance hip hop.

Tango, Ballet, Salsa. But with Kizomba, I just want to find out what makes it different to them and what makes it special for you.

Well, it took a bit of time to get warm to it because I was already dancing Tango and I was getting really good at it very quickly. So I remember when I saw Kizomba for me, was like, okay, this looks a bit like Tango, but it's not. The technical part doesn't look complicated. So I was underestimating the complexity of Kizomba because I came a bit from Tango and other dances that have more structure.

Because back then, Benjamin, even when he brought it to Serbia, he was one of the first people to actually put structure on how to teach Kizomba. So he was one of the first teachers, at least from what I remember, he told me, he was one of the first people who started to create, okay, one, basic three, because most of the teachers, Cape Verdeans and Angolans in Portugal, and also in the UK, from what I know, there was not a lot of structure, there's more like...

Speaker 2 (11:40.854)

like many other dances in the past, you just watch and copy. And they give you a little bit of instructions, but not much. So for me, it was very strange. I remember I hear the music. I'm a musician. understand music well. So he counts one, two, three, one, two, three. I'm like one, two, three, but it's a four, four. Wait, there's an eight count. There's like, I don't understand. So it was very confusing for me. So I felt resistance towards, I felt it was too simple, nothing special.

So over time as I started to study it more and actually started traveling, as I started teaching abroad 2006, I got to see other teachers and how they do it. So was like, okay, Benjamin brought a structure as a base, also my ex-dance partner. And then I started to, and I remember I saw you had Miguel as a guest in your podcast. I remember Miguel back then in the days and some other teachers as well.

They're also one of the first ones who also were teaching Kizomba in the way that I like and then I found relatable. So I think over time I started to simply understand it better and the music and that brought me to love it more.

Fantastic, fantastic, not fantastic. So that's great. And I know that obviously with Kizomba comes the word connection. Okay. Because it's a part of dance and we have to be connected as you know, and I know you're very passionate about connection in dance. So I want to find out what does connection mean to you?

Speaker 2 (13:16.504)

Connection for me means moving with the self and the other beyond the steps, beyond the techniques, beyond what we think we should do and really being present in the body in the moment, which is not that I'm moving my body, the body moves me. So that's what I mentioned in the beginning, there's an element, I would say, of spirit.

in the space, which I learned originally in Capoeira, almost like a fan state where there's a circle, there's people singing, there's music, there's energy moving me. There's not thinking process, there's a movement process and feeling the self and the other. So connection and exploration, what connection is, is what now it became also a fundamental pillar of my work to always, no matter the technique, no matter

beginner, intermediate, advanced level, teacher level, whatever. My intention is always how do we come back to that space of connection and I would say same frequency department where the magic can actually happen. True magic, otherwise it's just steps.

Absolutely, and I really like this topic as well. So in terms of that then, so if you're struggling to connect with someone, what do you do in a moment? How do you overcome that? know, if you're dancing with a partner and the connection is not there as it should be, how can you make it come?

Well, I'll start with this. Not every dance with every partner is going to be deeply connected. So we come to each dance with our previous day, our previous week or year, we always come with some sort of, baggage or thought process. So for us to kind of come back to the body instead of the mind to let go all these clouds of thoughts that come and go.

Speaker 2 (15:26.058)

I have a few things that I do besides the specific trainings that I have with people that I do. But I would say in the present moment, my main practice would be to focus on the breath. So really come back to the breath because often people kind of lose their sense of breathing and they get faster breathing, they go into the mind, they go out of the body basically, which is hard to then connect with the other. But again, coming back to the self, so not focusing first on the partner, but the self like, how am I?

coming into this dance. Am I here or am I thinking about work, the rent, about whatever? And through that breath and the practice I do through the breath, okay, coming back to the body, coming back really in and then from that place of kind of verticality of myself, connection to the ground, connection to something more, coming to my center, then from there I move horizontally towards my partner.

instead of expecting them to bring me back, which can happen. It can happen sometimes naturally also. The moment with them can bring me back. again, it's always a very unique, interesting journey how to come back to connection. And also what does that mean even? For some people it means, okay, I'm holding someone, that's my connection. So yeah, sure. But there's more, there's energy exchange to begin with.

There's an energy exchange with the partner, there's an energy exchange with the music. Are we both hearing the same thing or we see it differently? Are we both responding to that? Are we both feeling each other's breaths? Am I sensing the subtlety of my partner, how she, for example, responds to music? Am I feeling that, responding to that, allowing her to do that? Or am I just running my own thing and she just has to follow me forever?

The exploration and the search for connection is a beautiful one. I talk all day about it, but this is kind the foundation of coming back to the self and then from the self, reconnecting to the partner.

Speaker 1 (17:36.428)

Yeah, no, no, absolutely. Great. No, thank you. And just a little bit deeper than with that one. So I think you mentioned it there. So shouldn't feel too bad if you can't connect with everyone. Is that correct? Yeah, because people will have different frequencies because I think sometimes people, especially some leaders, they'll be like, you know, I've got to be able to move this lady or this follower in a way because that shows me as a good dancer or I've got to be able to connect with everyone, you know, on a certain way because I've to be able to do this move or do that.

and sometimes they get a little bit hard on themselves, but I'm liking what you're saying and you're saying that you're not gonna connect with everyone in the same way. Is that correct? Yeah.

You can dance with one partner one night, have the best dance you ever had in your life. The next night you want to dance with them again and it's horrible. It happened to me a few times, especially if there's an expectation, I had such an amazing dance, I want to do it again. And then it just doesn't happen. So this also is the return to the self and the breath and the present moment because

if there's expectation put on the self and the partner, it's just going to get into the way of the dance and what is possible to happen in a completely new way between you both. So this has to be removed.

Yeah, okay. No, and it's just good to know. think it's good for people to hear so we don't have to put that pressure on ourselves as well to be all in everything. No. So that's okay. All right. So well also then, you know, because you've talked about this so eloquently and you know, people sometimes describe Kizomba as a moving meditation. So, you know, a moving meditation. What do you think of that? Do you agree? Do you use it to relax as well?

Speaker 2 (19:24.448)

Yes, I'm a bit perhaps tricked with the word and a few more words, but especially meditation, because I do meditate for 20 plus years specifically, but I understand the sentiment, is meditation is also coming back to the moment. And again, what I just described, how can I really land into my body and beyond? So yes, it can become that.

It depends also on the music a lot. I don't find Samba for me a way to relax in that way, meditate. It's more towards finding different kinds of energies. Certain types of music can bring me to that state, but it's not something I search for. And that's why I mentioned before, it can be, you know, how was my day? What did I eat? What's the song at that moment? Does that song land? What mood she is? Do we connect?

The list is long. So ideally we can move beyond all of these things and really come to each other and see what magic can be born in that moment. That's the search that I'm trying to also invite people into beyond the techniques.

Absolutely. Yes. And I think you just mentioned that because I wanted to ask you about, you know, people say that Kizomba is more about feeling than, than steps or technique. What are your thoughts around that? Is it really just all about the feeling more so than anything else?

It depends for who. If you're born in Angola or Cabo Verde, you're kind of surrounded by this music and culture. You dance since you're not everyone, but you dance since young age. So the dance is already there for you. You don't have to study it. Most people abroad have to go to class, have to use their mind, has to go back home, then go to the parties and then get disappointed again and again and again. that's what I mean by depends for who and.

Speaker 2 (21:29.262)

You know, for many people dancing is just a way to relieve stress or to meet a partner or who knows. So it can be a meditative state. Maybe not for everyone and maybe not everyone searches for that.

Yeah, okay, yeah, no, absolutely different people, different experiences. Okay, yeah, fantastic, fantastic. So, all right, another important point then, musicality. Okay, so Kizomba and musicality. Can you talk to us about musicality and how you interpret music when you dance? What are the key things that you do? What are the key things that people need to be doing to interpret musicality correctly?

Well, there's a few details. One, to actually love the music. You know, I play a lot of Kizomba every day in my home, so it's kind of present in my day-to-day life. I enjoy it. The more I enjoy it, the more I can feel the music. So that's one element I would say that you enjoy it. And the next one would be, especially for someone who studies the dance, to also study least the basic fundamentals of musicality.

which means the structure, means the understanding there's a certain frame of music, which we can fit the dance in and understanding how the dance fits into that framework. And you know, from basics to like, okay, eight counts, 16, 32, 64, and understanding that in those structures, usually the music starts or ends. So that's an easy way to, even the songs you don't know, to start.

to sense something is changing, building in the song, it's announcing me, telegraphing me that something is going to change and I should be ready. So that's some of the fundamentals anyone can learn. And ideally beyond that, which I love to teach, which is also going to the instruments, how the instruments operate, how...

Speaker 2 (23:34.818)

That can also be aligned with the dancing, how certain instruments can be interpreted, which is, I have to say, it's still a bit new in the Kizomba world. I think there's only a few of us who teach that, which is, for example, how does conga is played in Kizomba and how is conga played in Zouk, how is conga played in Kizomba. It's a different way of playing. So how can that be used to dance inside of the dance itself? How can I use that as a...

moving vessel, what am I focusing on when I dance? Is it perhaps one instrument? Is it two? And going beyond that. So there'll be something that I love to do that is, I would say maybe a next level. And...

Yeah, and then how do we both navigate that because she might hear something else, I might hear something else. So how can we also hear the music, but also become a new instrument with our body? And then we start to create. So that's the magic, which requires a bit more time and effort to learn, but it's available.

Yes, absolutely. So do you think then, do you think that generally people should listen to the music quite well, listen to the music first before you even start to dance? Or what I mean is listen to the music a lot before you even start to take lessons because you're starting to understand what you were just saying about the different, different, you know, instruments and when the music stops with this kind of stuff. What are your thoughts on that?

It's subjective, I think. Again, I entered the dance through the music first. So my friend Fula was sharing the music with me. So I was like, I love this music. I don't know how to dance this, but it moves my body. So, okay, let's start with that. And of course, specifically later on learning the steps. So it's an individual journey, but it's, I mean, it would be very hard to dance and enjoy the dance if you don't like the music.

Speaker 2 (25:41.076)

I would say nowadays, my style is more Kizomba-Semba with my own personal, depending with who I dance, spice I put from other dances or my own individual self. There's a lot of new styles of music and dance that now exist, like from Urban Kiz, they use a specific kind of music, to now Tarraxa, they use a specific kind of music.

which I don't personally resonate much with at certain moments, certain tunes, maybe. But my preference, what I love to listen is Kizomba, Semba, Tarraxinha. And inside of that world, the Kizomba, there's so much. There's Zouk, there's Ghetto Zouk, there's Kizomba, there's Kompa, there's millions of things. And this is my priority. So I notice when I go to a party where the music is not what I like,

I honestly don't want to dance because I try. try, moved to Amsterdam, I moved to Estonia, I went to lot of parties here. I never sat as much as I have on these parties that I like anywhere in my life. I just, I tried to that a little, it was forcing myself and I just sat down and I went home. So that's what I mean by you have to love the music.

Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, okay. So you've worked with different teachers. So you've worked with, know, teachers in Angola, Cape Verde, Portugal, and obviously you developed your own unique style. So what I want to find out is what are some of the teachings that really helped you elevate your dance and who did you kind of get that information from or those teachings from? In other words, we know what made you so great?

Exactly.

Speaker 2 (27:38.776)

Well, I will say this, when I started to, because I lived in Serbia, and Serbia, we have a history of complicated political history. So at that time, at the beginning of 2000, I didn't travel much abroad. So many of my main teaching sources were, or people that I would meet that come to Serbia, or I would learn online. So what I was really good at is if I would see something, I can copy it.

very easily. this I learned to Capoeira. So I remember I would watch first online videos. I remember Petchu. Mestre Petchu had a video for Tarraxinha that was like one of the first videos. And then I remember Zebar Bossa. So he was also one of the main teachers of that time, first generation in Portugal. He's capoeirian. Mestre Petchu from Angola. And there was Tomas Keita from Guinea-Bissau.

So those are one of the first teachers that actually had videos online, like literally the first videos of Kizomba dancing online in Tarraxinha. So I started to first learn online from them and then slowly in, yeah, and Kwenda Lima. Kwenda Lima left a big impression after a few years when I saw his videos. I remember 2006, 2007, I saw him dance and I do remember when I saw him dance, there was something in his style.

not just visually, but also the emotional part that really landed well with me, with my own personality, with my own search of what dance is. So, Kwenda Lima was, I would say, big, big influence for me.

And we'd kind of, as I started traveling, I started to get out and meet other teachers, especially in Salsa festivals was because back then we didn't have Kizomba festivals. We had Salsa festivals and I was one of the first people who started DJing and teaching Kizomba. There was Joao, there was Benjamin, there was a few more people after Latin connection. And then after I started to also bring my own version of Kizomba, even though I sucked really bad back then.

Speaker 1 (29:31.532)

Yes.

Speaker 1 (29:44.61)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:53.038)

but I literally started to pick up from everyone in the beginning.

mainly these were the influences I mentioned, Mestre Petchu, Kwenda Lima, Zebar Bossa. I would say these were the top three for me that really impacted my style.

and some great, great, people. What can we say? So great influences and absolutely they will impact a number of people in terms of dance. So that's fantastic. then, you know, thinking about them, thinking about you, your development of style, you know, what advice can you give to people? So maybe beginners and a little bit more advanced dancers in terms of what are these essential they should be looking for?

to improve in their dance. So maybe we start off with beginners, just some of the essentials. I know we kind of talked about a few things, musicality. Is there anything specific that you can give to beginners or that you teach beginners that you say, get this to help you?

I would start with a quote. learned young, very early age, which I modified for my own purposes. learned from my ballet teacher, which is the basic step is the first thing you learn and the last thing you master. Okay. Yep. So this is the sentence on which I run all my work. And that means this.

Speaker 2 (31:24.298)

Example beginner, he goes to first class. He starts learning basic one way transfer basic to open and close, you know, first few one two months really fundamental things and What happens if this is a beginner he starts to move starts to grow And For the next level if I would divide this in beginner improver intermediate advanced, let's say four levels for him to go to the

Improver level, which is after the beginner one, there is foot, there is a, there is not a line, it's a circle, which means he needs to learn and he has to go back to the basics full circle so he can enter the new bigger circle, which is the improvers. So the basic has to be always the, the meeting point before going to the next phase. You cannot avoid it. And many people do thinking, it's the next trick. It's the next.

leg slice is the next, no, it's going back to the basics because when I go to teach or I go to a festival or I really want to dance with someone good, I don't look at their tricks. I look at their feet. I look how they transfer their weight. I look at the position of the feet where they place the foot. I look how the foot connects with the rest of the body, how it impacts, how grounded they are. And that's how I choose someone if I want to dance.

with a really good dancer. And that's all the information. I need five seconds to look at the feet and the rest of the body and that's it. a really good dancer has really, really good basics.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's something that, you know, I've spoken about many times before, but I just think that coming from people like yourselves and, you know, teachers that we speak to, it's really important that we hammer that point, you know, quite hard because, you know, lots of people want to, and it's, you know, everyone's different. We understand, you know, we want people to, they want to improve and they want to, you know, do the fancy things or whatever it might be. But without this grounding, it's never, well, it's not going to happen in the correct way. Is it?

Speaker 1 (33:37.292)

So it's really important that message is got through. absolutely. Thank you for that. And I guess the next question, I mean, this question I've asked before, but it might be how long is a piece of string, but in your opinion, you know, if you're dancing and you're, know, Kizomba especially, and you're doing, you're dancing over a period of time, what kind of timeframe do you think that you should stay, you know, before you start moving to the next level in a beginner's, beginner's level?

Well, let's start with...

the Saida for example. I do not teach Saida for the first minimum two three months for a student who comes two times a week.

So I don't even go there. So that means everything happens in front of the partner. And that should be a priority for a Kizomba-Semba dancer because that is the fundamental of everything. And everything else that comes beyond the facing each other position, which would be in a Saida position, in a side exit position, should come much after and as a spice, as an additional thing, not as the fundamental. So that's what I mean.

I always recommend people do not even think about Saida for the first few months. And that means you really have to dive in into the basics and you have to unpack the basics in millions of ways because the basic step, let's say even weight transfer, which is the dance, you're transferring the weight all the time in different ways. That has also beginner level, that also has an intermediate level, basics have an advanced level.

Speaker 2 (35:21.262)

And for example, I will tell you this in also in ballet and other dances that I did, for example, in Danza Cotoperaneo de Cuba, in Cuba for Afro-Cuban dances, one of the final exams at the end of a few years of training, you have to do the basic fundamental thing. You have to demonstrate the, literally the basic thing is part of the exam. They don't ask you to do some fancy. No, they want you to show you the basic, basic, basic thing, how you do it.

this kind of shows again for me.

that if we, if we're, if we're gonna really in a quality way, grow, grow into an advanced dancer, where I, where I dance with you and I really feel like literally the moment I go into an embrace with you, the first step we do, I know exactly that you, you, you spend a lot of time on your basics. And if you, if you didn't, I'll know right away. You cannot get away from there. So, and you can do all these fancy tricks and I don't know, whatever you want to show me.

I honestly don't care. I just don't care because without the fundamentals there is no cord of connection between us and the floor. We're kind of all over the place.

I love it. I love it. And I also love the fact that you just mentioned that, you know, when you were doing your exam, the final part is there. You have to go back to the basis. I think that just says it all basically. So I think that, you know, people just need to understand that this is so important and that, yeah, don't try and rush before you can walk.

Speaker 2 (36:55.244)

Yeah. And look, I also want to have compassion for, because this is a social dance. People come to have fun. Many people just don't want, you know, more strict training, I would say. Maybe it's not strict for me, but for many people, maybe it is. Many people just want to dance. They don't really care about these things. So I have compassion for that. And how the scene develops is based on how the teachers approach this because

Unfortunately, many teachers skip the basics very quickly. So we have a generation. This is not to insult anyone. This is just as it is. Then we create a generation of mediocre dancers who think they're advanced and this is not good for anyone. Then the scene does not grow. Then it kind of leaks all over the place. So I would say, you know, you can have fun and be taking time, pace it to learn the basics and have, you can have so much fun with it still.

But the teacher needs to be acquainted with that and also passionate about it.

100 % yeah and I'm with you on that. I guess it's just making sure like you said that the dance is not diluted and it's just kept to its authenticity in terms of how it should be done so that's what we're trying to aim for where we can but you're right yeah people come out they can dance do whatever they want but totally totally cool. Alright now thank you thank you. Alright so what is Kizomba taught you about yourself?

Speaker 2 (38:26.286)

about myself.

What has this beautiful dance taught you about yourself?

Speaker 2 (38:36.876)

that I can be more sensitive and more gentle towards myself.

so I can then be more gentle and sensitive to others. He told me to listen to the body of a woman, which then later I translated that into my relationship and also into my coaching work, to really listen and sense where the woman is at in the moment, beside myself, but to really pay attention to what she's speaking through the body without saying a word.

and to respond to that. And I notice when I do that, the softness and the opening that happens in the woman is really, really magical. And this is part of my ideal dance that she feels trust in me because I am listening, because I am present, because I am attentive and sensitive and reading. While at the moment she feels more safe, because of that safety she can open up and again that impacts me.

and we create this dynamic and the dance really becomes something very special. So, it taught me a lot about myself but also about the opposite sex, about how to...

hold the woman, how to approach the woman, how to be a gentleman, which I didn't learn as a child from my family perhaps, or the schools, but it really taught me how to be a gentleman the best way I can. So when I invite the lady to the dance floor, I come to her, I extend my hand, I really love to dance. She says, yes, I put her hand under mine, I take her to the dance floor. I treat her the best way I can in the moment, and when the dance is done,

Speaker 2 (40:27.296)

I don't leave her in the middle of the dance floor and leave, I actually just take the hand and bring her back to where she was. So these kind of small things which are not small, I see the impact it leaves on the partner. So it really, really taught me a lot about how to be also a man and a gentleman and how to treat a woman.

Fantastic. Fantastic. Fantastic. just building on that then. So you're doing some great work. I've seen some of your work on Instagram, some of the stuff that you're posting around giving Kizomba tips to us dancers. And I think this is one of the things that you did in one of your recent ones where you were talking, well, I saw you asked the lady to dance, you know, in terms of what we should be doing, bring her back, all that kind of stuff. I know you've got a few dance partners that you're doing those videos with.

and that education with. So what was the, why did you want to do that type of work to put that out? What was the origins of that?

Well, just to start from the end, which is I have one dance partner now. name is Melissa Lopez. She's Dutch Cape Verdean. She's a really lovely dancer, lovely. Yeah. And we started this kind of tips. short, but I do notice people respond to them very well because it's something perhaps they didn't think about or they have not been taught. I primarily.

Lovely dancer indeed,

Speaker 2 (41:59.246)

In dancing, I love to teach the most. I love to dance, of course, that's also on the top of the list, but I, you know, when I go to festivals and all these things, I'm perhaps not anymore such a fan of not sleeping for a few nights, but I just love to teach. I think that's my priority. And so all this started, I think 2013 or 14.

I remember I published my first video on YouTube. It's an instructional video about Kizomba. So I started to teach also online. I just wanted to share more about Kizomba, what I know. And I had no idea how that's going to go. I was even thinking no one will watch this. And in the end, I remember the Kizomba basic that I created. It's now almost 3 million views.

Fantastic. Well done. Congratulations.

Yeah, well, yeah, thank you. But my point is with that is people are hungry for knowledge and I'm not shy to share. And online is a beautiful platform to share these things because I do see people really appreciate it and they can learn a lot. So my focus is always going to be how can I share more of what I know? And so these dance tips was created from that because at the moment I have a baby, I don't have so much time to make videos as I used to.

So this kind of dance tips is fun, it's short and yeah, this is how it started I would say.

Speaker 1 (43:33.162)

and we love the work that you're doing. think it's absolutely amazing. I'm definitely learning loads from it and I think many people are well, like you said, you've got the views there. So please keep that up. We love that. We love that. So you just literally mentioned your baby. Okay. So that's going to be my next question to you actually. So I wanted to ask you, so you got a beautiful baby. Can I just ask how old your child is now?

you

Speaker 2 (43:58.742)

Nine months, next week, Wednesday.

brand new to the world. Exciting. All right. So what I want to find out about you then, you know, your, your baby would have been hearing music around the house, around the home, going into their ears, even before they aim to the world. Right. So I guess the question is, you know, are you going to get them into dance?

Well, she's already dancing. To be honest, I, when my girlfriend was pregnant, we, mean, since I was young age, I always had music in my home. So always, the music is playing in the background. And interestingly enough, they did a lot of research that the baby already in the womb can learn language, can recognize voices of the parents and can hear music. So she heard music. I was also playing a lot of instruments.

So I would play for her every night before bedtime, would play to the belly, I would play the flute. And interestingly what happened, I remember I think month two after my baby was born, I was like, oh yeah, I didn't play the flute since she was born, let me try. And I remember I took the flute, and she was just laying down.

started to play she just literally stopped everything she was doing she just started to look and literally not tears of this but like tears of like just you see it she got impacted just started to run through her faith. I even thinking about it gets me emotional and yeah so

Speaker 1 (45:30.946)

Yep.

Speaker 2 (45:35.918)

So yeah, she's, even when my girlfriend was pregnant, we were dancing a lot. we dance a Kizomba. So now my daughter is like such a, like, it's incredible how musical she is so young. She can copy sounds, she hears music, just literally lifts her hands and she just does this. So she's already dancing and I sometimes pick her up. put Kizomba music, we dance together. So I think it's kind of inevitable that she will dance.

I'm not aiming this, it's a career for her, if she wants she can, but kids are so open for music and dancing, it's a natural thing. think dancing is one of the most natural things you can do with your body.

Absolutely. And that's great to hear. I'm looking forward to seeing her in the future and her dance and her dance steps. She's going to be a great dancer. She's got you and other people around her doing this dance. So it's going to be fantastic. And obviously, know, little kids, have their personalities as they grow it, as you know. you know, some people say that dance reveals a lot about a person's personality. Do you agree with that generally? Yeah.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:50.36)

Talk to us a bit more about that then.

Just you remember the sensitivity I mentioned before what Kizomba taught me. doesn't mean that everyone will learn that. I have maybe specific, my personality, I like to, and also hence my coaching work. also coach men, I coach couples. do a lot of psychological, spiritual work on myself and others. I'm just, my nature is to dive in deeply into whatever I do.

Because of that and the way my dance developed, do have a, and this can be taught to others, which I try to do. You can become very, very sensitive and to start reading people, their body language, and also to touch energetically in other ways, you can start reading people. So, so far I haven't been wrong with what I've read, so to speak.

Women especially are really good at this naturally. Men can do that but they need bit more work on that. But yeah, woman can sense if the man is fully present with her or is he somewhere far. So I can sense the same with a woman. I feel if she's here or not. Woman can also sense if the man is safe to be with and if or is he dancing with her because he wants something from her.

in whatever way, a woman can really pick that up really well, which is important because we go to dance, or sometimes we dance with someone we never met. there is a certain level of trust that needs to be built, but also a certain level of awareness who that person is. So dancing can teach us to become more receptive to who that person is and to reveal their personalities because I would say this,

Speaker 2 (48:47.32)

When I started teaching internationally, I did not know how to do that. In the sense of how to behave. I'm a teacher now. Okay, what does that mean? And then I started to watch out a teacher, especially back then in the Salsa scene. So I've seen a lot of arrogance in the space and I see a lot of humility. So I was like, okay, what is what? And how do I navigate myself into that? Who am I? So I've been through also a phase of

arrogance of my own and deep humility. So I had to learn who I am in this space because it's very easy to be swayed a bit by the attention, by the people, by this and that. And I would say, especially in those positions, you can see a bit more clearly who people are. You can understand a bit better how they behave towards others to really see what is there, how much they work to understand, but also who they are.

their personalities, so that can be revealed very easily.

Very interesting, very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. And obviously thank you for being open, honest and humble about that going on your journey and obviously telling us about that and getting to where you are now. So that's fantastic. So, Nemanja, listen, thank you. Thank you so much. So this beautiful dance that we all love, all right, continues to grow and grow globally.

So what I want to find out is how do you see Kizomba's evolution in the next few years or however many years, know, how do you see Kizomba changing? yeah, so that question really, how do see it?

Speaker 2 (50:33.736)

I would like to unpack this, we can maybe do it together a bit. So, I'm spending a lot of time thinking about this and also looking at observing what's happening in the dance scene. So, Kizomba specifically seeing change...

In the last, let's say since 2012, 13 started to shift a bit the mood of the room. And there's different reasons why. I my own theories. First of all, as Kizomba started to get more popular, I mentioned Benjamin Nande, I mentioned Kwenda Lima, floating connection, they started to travel, bring the Kizomba into the world.

And of course that helped a lot Kizomba to develop and grow because I mentioned there was not a lot of structure before. So in the beginning there was more show and copy. Now there's structure. So there's more structure. So that changed a lot. That was new. Second, the music started to shift. We had more electronical music. And from there also, of course,

other cultures are starting to pick up the dance, they get better at it, and then they start bringing their own culture dances and personal ones. So that's how also in France, Urban Kiz kind of emerged from that influence because there's a lot of Africans also who live in France who are impacted by zoo or maybe from the islands. So, also France is very known for their hip hop scene and

So that kind of started to influence. So Kizomba, Kizomba and Semba environment, I remember it well, it started to get impacted by that in the sense of, I remember a lot of teachers started to be like, okay, we see this developing there, like how do we do our thing? So also in the Kizomba scene, I saw a lot of development in technique. Kizomba itself has then started to change a lot.

Speaker 2 (52:43.862)

Like new things started to be implemented. A lot of my friends from Portugal and beyond, started to add their own flavors, which started to, I noticed also be a good thing, but also, how do I say this? I think it brought a little bit of, at that point, a bit of conflict also, because I remember I had a lot of talks with my friends from Angola. They live in Europe and in Angola. So they didn't always necessarily like the change Kizomba had.

Yes. Yes. So there was a lot of discussion, a lot of conflicts also back then in, where are we going with this? Are we going to stay within the framework or what Kizomba is, or are we like going too far away? Which still to this day exists this conversation, not so much, but it's still here. So what I see Kizomba now.

I would say there was a peak in the popularity and the engagement and festivals and there suddenly started to go down and there was a bit of stillness for a few years we had. And now I'm slowly seeing the Kizomba starting to more festivals slowly starting to emerge. And I believe the future of Kizomba is going to be

more adding the traditional forms. For example, there's a lot of beautiful traditional dances in Angola that I feel are now slowly being implemented more in the Kizomba and also Semba, course, especially Semba. So I think there has to be a certain point where I do feel Kizomba will naturally, it's not like I want it or someone wants it, it's more like the dance itself has a life of its own.

I do feel it wants to grow and evolve. I don't know exactly what that is, but I'm getting more sense on how do we keep the basic structure but still have the dance grow? Because there was a stagnation. And that's felt. Also, Urban kit has exploded, Tarraxo exploded. But now feel again, there's a full circle. spoke to in the beginning of this beginner mindset. There is a full circle.

Speaker 2 (55:07.758)

And now I feel the next evolution of Kizomba, there's a new coming back to the basics and like there's a new bigger circle and it's slowly unpacking itself. And people are experimenting, they're trying different things, me too. Some people like it, some people don't, what is being done. But I think the next evolution is on, we are on the threshold of it and it's slowly going to unpack itself. And I will just add one more thing.

Semba in Angola, especially Semba Show, is experiencing a massive, the last whatever years, very evident evolution. So we see Semba Show being from Semba Social, suddenly on the stage, people are doing crazy shit. Sorry for cursing. We always say chips, ships in front of a daughter. So crazy ships is happening. I'm seeing now Semba Show doing some stuff I've never seen before.

It's alright

Speaker 2 (56:06.862)

And I want to name many of the Angolans are creating the moves, but they're also copying from others. They have internet, have YouTube, they're seeing from other dances and they're taking also from there. Which is sometimes the judgment, was the judgment of Angolans when European people add from other dances. So we are dancing with this, like, what is okay? What is not okay? Is this Kizomba? Is this not? Can I add more things, but I'm not Angolan? No, you can't. Yes, you can.

So we're a bit like teenagers arguing about silly things.

Yes, no, but I'm interesting, though very, very interesting. And it's going to be, well, I think exciting to see how that develops over the years and, you know, where we end up really. So

Yeah, I think also what's happening now in the Semba show, it's going to slowly enter, it's already entering Semba and slowly from there they're entering it into Kizomba. So I see Angolans, especially Angolans in Europe, I want to name this because Angolans in Europe, they're inevitably influenced by the European culture and the other dances and the international festival scene because international festival scene demands from us to

always have a new workshop, always have something interesting, something different, so it demands us to grow and create something new. So I see even Angola and Cape Verde, they're creating new stuff no one ever did before. And no one, maybe even Angola does, but they're adapting to the environment, to the market. So this is like, that's what I mean, it's happening slowly. I believe there's going to be a new cycle of Kizomba, not as before, the popularity, but it's coming in a new way.

Speaker 2 (57:53.13)

And it is going to be a unique mix of not only Angolan Cape Verdean dancers or Guinness Bissau, but also dancers from Europe who are really good. Also in Poland and other countries, like really good dancers who are emerging on the level of African dancers. And they will, like me also, I will bring my own flavour and no one can take away that.

I think people just need to stay a bit more open-minded, not get too critical about how things should look like, but at least being open to the exploration of artistry like musicians do. Musicians don't care about the structure, when they create, they create. They're not like, now I'm going to create a Kizomba song. No. They start creating music and see what happens. So I would like the same for dancers.

So I think it's coming.

Yeah, no, great. And you know, we look forward to it. And we obviously we thank Angola, thank For Kizomba and it's branched out into such a big thing that the only way is up and hopefully the only way is greater things. So let's have a look at, an eye on what it looks like. I'm gonna get you back again at a later time when the things are developing and we can talk about, okay, this is what we said before, look at where we are now.

Well, I will name one thing. So for example, the closest dance to Kizomba in its structure is Tango.

Speaker 1 (59:29.858)

That's an interesting point because I've always often said that it's an African Tango kind of, but you are a Tango dancer, so explain more please. Yeah.

So Tango and Kizomba are danced in front of each other. And if it's not dancing in front of each other, we are in a Saida position, one side or the other. Same structure in Tango. So structure wise, of course, the dance itself, the music completely different, the flavour, the feeling completely different. But the structure itself, technically, it's very, very similar. So what I did also in the past, would take, would explore first what actually works.

from Tango that can be added to Kizomba without disturbing the fundamentals. So there are certain moves that can be actually done that still look nice. Like one of the first moves that was implemented in Kizomba was the pivot. So the lady goes into front step, for example, right leg, she just 180 turns on one leg. That was introduced from Tango. So people started to add and it's done in Kizomba still to this day. But again, in Kizomba often this dance on the street, you cannot pivot.

Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37.294)

You're going to break your leg or knee. So there's an adaptation in Europe because of the dance floor. Also, the floor is more slippery. There's shoes. So we are adapting also to the floor and the environment. So there are other dances which still do impact Kizomba, tricks, technique, slides, whatever. We're taking more and more from other dances. And again,

I think the main point is just to stay open with less judgment and allow ourselves to be a bit messy because that is the path to growth. Otherwise we're going to stigmatize and make Kizomba like this little club that no one can enter or exit. if you don't look like this, if you don't behave like this, that's something I just don't want for anyone. And then we see.

Let's bring on the mess and figure it out. Let's get dirty.

That's, mean, let's not forget Kizomba is a mixed dance. It's not created from nothing. It's a mixed dance music too. So, yeah.

No? Fantastic. Nemanja, listen, thank you so much. know, this, look, we could talk for hours, but we're going to have to do this in parts. Okay. So this has been fantastic. I just want to, just want to wrap up with a few things if that's all right. And there's one thing that I want to get across here, which I thought was just so, so beautiful because we've been talking about movement, you know, your master of movement and dance and, you know, all these things, connection, musicality.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21.932)

And there was something I saw on one of your feeds, which just hit me like a rock. And I was like, wow, I wish I came up with that and I want to steal it. All right. So I'm going to, I'm going to read it to you right now. I'm going to quote it because I think it just beautiful. So says, excuse me. It says, a dancer is an artist. One that can use its body limbs like brushes, creating the most beautiful paintings with each step it takes.

With each moment, each song, each partner, a new unique masterpiece is being born on the empty canvas of life.

When I saw that, I thought, wow, what a great way to articulate what dance is or a dancer is like an artist. Is that your quote? Where did that come from? Because I think that's just so powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19.626)

I don't remember it.

Okay, fair enough.

I mean, I do remember the quote. I'm just trying to remember when did I write it? mean, most of the things you see in my poetry, I mean, it's my writing and I love poetry. I love to see dance as a poetic expression. I love to see my feet as those brushes that write those poems that paint those paintings. And I do my best also to move my feet as a brush on the floor. So.

Yeah, it's my quote for sure. just, you know, when I write a lot, so this is one of many things I wrote, but it's, it's, yeah, I don't know what else to say. Thank you for naming that.

beautiful but I do I do have a confession I have a remix of it so I'm gonna give you read you the remix all right and you just tell me what you think you say yeah

Speaker 2 (01:04:17.39)

Is there a beat?

I wish I was that talented, but just a slightly condensed version. So tell me what you think of this. So a dancer is like an artist who uses its limbs as a brush to paint the perfect canvas on the dance floor. So essentially it's everything you said, but it's just condensed.

J. J. Alright.

Okay. Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. I just.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So we all have our journeys and we all have our expressions and I really, maybe one of my last things I want to say, sorry, this whole conversation about what is the next evolution, what is our style, what is this? For me, as long as we have the fundamentals which make the dance, I really want to invite everyone to explore, to be messy on the canvas, to try different colours, to try just different things and see what happens with respect

Speaker 2 (01:05:17.172)

of the roots and the origin of the dance and the music, which I at least do my best to do. So you have your own way of hearing this and reading this and I invite everyone to create their own little quote, you know, and it's a yay for everything that we create ourselves. So good.

Fantastic, no, fantastic, thank you. And we really appreciate it. We appreciate you. you mentioned the fact that you do writing, you know, your poetry, you mentioned the fact that you do some coaching, mentioned the fact that you're spiritual. So just tell us briefly about some of the other work that you do so people can find out a little bit more about Nemanja.

Well, one is dancing. So I dance, I live in Amsterdam. I travel abroad to teach and locally I'm still new to Amsterdam, so I'm still finding my way to teach here. Will I open a school? Will I teach for someone else? But I kind of had a little pause, so to speak, from Kizomba or from teaching in general, just to regenerate a bit my body and my energy to come out with like...

Question, what is my next big circle evolution, revolution advancement? So traveling abroad with my dance partner, Melissa, and also I am the co, I'm the founder, but CEO, so to speak, of the World Kizomba Project. And it's a project that I organized, I created seven years ago with a few people. And then in the end, kind of, I just stayed.

from what was started, is bringing people from all over the world through Kizomba and organize certain choreographies, certain projects that people can do from all over the world at the same time. And we had so many, we had thousands of people already participating that hundreds of videos being created from there and really bringing communities together. So that's kind of my process of education, creating projects that can really amplify

Speaker 2 (01:07:22.656)

and put spotlight on the Kizomba and Semba as a culture. So that's my dance story. And my main focus in dancing is connection. So I have a specific workshops, I work around connection, how to build more connection, how to bring connection to any technique or any level that you do. And musicality, I love teaching music. So that's the dance part. And my other piece is I work with men a lot.

We call it men's work and it's not men building walls for companies. It's more men coming together in a brotherhood and supporting each other to become better version of ourselves, unpacking stuff if necessary from the past, what's in the way. But a lot of inner personal growth, spirituality around men. And also I work with couples. I love working with couples, relationship-wise.

So this kind of teaches a love to merge and in the end I kind of found a way how to merge everything with dancing, so to speak, to bring the knowledge from the dance, what I learned and how to bring it here and how to bring this there. And for me, it's now kind of one thing, but mainly I would say coaching men and couples and dancing. this is my purpose in life.

Fantastic, beautiful purpose and great work that you're doing. So thank you. Thank you. And obviously just keep going because I think that's needed in the world. So thank you so much, Nemanja. So in terms of, you know, maybe just finding out, so people finding out about you, where can they find out a bit more about you? Where do they go and where can they find out more about the Kizomba Project, the world Kizomba Project you talking about? So I guess what I'm asking you is your socials and all that kind of stuff. Tell us.

Yeah, Nemanja Sonero is all socials, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. So N-E-M-A-N-J-A Sonero S-O-N-E-R-O. So you can find me anywhere on these places. Website is the same, nemanjasonero.com and the worldKizomba project.com. So there, these two websites are my main platforms for connecting with people and there everything can be found. So I'm here.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44.75)

Fantastic. So everyone, you heard the details. So go and check out Nemanja.

And Nemanja and Melissa on Instagram. these are new partnerships. So we're also there.

Yeah, please do check that out because you get some great tips there. Great, great, great tips, great dance couples. So please do definitely check that out. So, Nemanja, we want to say thank you for joining us on Kizomba Conversations. It's been great getting to know you, getting to know your story. But we're just at the start. There's many more topics that we're going to be wanting to talk to you about. So that's number one. All right. We've got more in the future. All right.

Thank you for the invite. Thank you for doing these conversations. It helps the dancing, get a bit more data and information and connection to people who do this. And I feel when you asked me what is the part of the evolution, I feel you are also part of this evolution and growth and the next level of Kizomba, which is bringing more of these conversations. So thank you for your work.

Thank you. Keep it up. We'll keep it up. Thank you very much. just before we let you go, as you know, we've got some fun questions for you, So answer. huh. Indeed. Hey, so the way it works is you have three. Well, let me hold them up here. Can you see the three cards here? So you've got, I believe green, orange and yellow. So you answer two and then I answer the last one that you didn't choose. So.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11.082)

Which one would you prefer to first? Orange. All right. So. OK, so I'll read this out to you. So this is a I'm going to tell you that this question is quite tricky. OK, so it's not an easy one. Well, maybe for you, but I don't think it's an easy one to answer, but we'll get into it. OK, so as a teacher, yeah, when you're teaching your favourite moment in class.

Orange.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40.664)

So when you're teaching in class, your favourite moment as a teacher is, you've got three options here. Number one, watching a student nail a tricky move. So you taught a tricky move and that student nails it and you think, well done, that's number one. Number two, watching a student nail a move that you personally like to execute. So one of your favourites, yeah.

So you taught it and you thought, hey, well done. You've done that really well. Or number three, hearing a student say, I really enjoyed today's class.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24.344)

Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34.848)

It's like, I did set you up, did say it's gonna be tricky one, but I want you to pick one if you can. If you can.

Is good? It's not... It's good. It's a good question.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49.23)

Oh, sorry, I think you tricky, sorry. I said tree. Oh, I think you said

I said tree already.

Alright, three. Sorry people. Alright, so three. So hearing the students say I really enjoyed today's class. Yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11.426)

I'll just say quickly, there's a study that has been done, same for grown ups as for kids, people learn 10 times faster when they do it through fun.

So anything can be learned much more faster when fun is involved. So if we can have fun at the same time and bring discipline, paddle to that, people skyrocketed.

Interesting to know. Okay, yeah. Fantastic.

Fun play. Absolutely.

Alright so green or yellow?

Speaker 2 (01:13:44.334)

I mean...

Speaker 1 (01:13:48.822)

Okay, alright, so-

All right, this is an interesting question. All right, so.

I'm sure.

Okay, so you have a beautiful partner, you have a beautiful baby, alright? But I want you to play with me again, I want you to go back to when you just met, okay? Or when you were courting her, or when you trying to get her, alright? And you're dating, right? You're dating, so all that nice, you know, that nice beginning stuff of love and a relationship. you've had a first date with your beautiful partner, okay?

The first date went well. He knows that you dance. Yeah, you did mention it, but she doesn't know the amount of dances that you do. Yeah, she doesn't know that you do all these different dances, hip-hop, Salsa, Tango, Kizomba. But she knows that you dance and you had that conversation and that's one of the things that you like. So, because you can see potential here, you really like her, all that kind of stuff, obviously you want to bring her into your world, right? So it would be nice if she

Speaker 1 (01:14:57.314)

could dance because she doesn't actually dance. I should have mentioned that as well. She doesn't dance. Okay. Just tell me.

So wait, this is just hypothetically,

Yes, hypothetically, right. So she doesn't she actually doesn't dance herself. But yes, it is hypothetical. So the question is, you're to take her on a second date, right? But you want to take her to a dance place.

So because you dance so many different styles, which one would you take her to for dance? Yeah, other dates. So would it be, would you go to a hip hop class? Would you go to a Tango class? Would you go to a Salsa class? Or would you take her to the Kizomba class as a second date?

So, I have to pause you. So, we met, she doesn't know I dance Kizomba, right? Or she knows?

Speaker 1 (01:15:48.248)

She doesn't know, she knows that you'd like to dance, but she doesn't know specifics of the dance. doesn't know the specifics of what dance is. So I'm giving you the option to say, right, this is the second date. Where should I take this beautiful lady? Which one should I, which one should I show her? Basically.

He's over.

Okay, now I need to know why you would choose Kizomba.

It's easiest to learn, easiest to connect with the music is super light, chill, vibe. And it's shaking, I'm sure, especially when the man leads well, me in this case, it's very easy for her to follow and relax. Because Salsa Tango requires some structure. We can have fun, but it requires a bit more time. And if I want to have fun right away and just connection.

Kizomba.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39.726)

Okay, fantastic. Well, I wouldn't disagree with that. Okay, so cool. We're in a Kizomba podcast, so fantastic. All right, so that's cool. All right, so the last question then that is for me that you avoided or you didn't get is, if Kizomba could teach the world one life lesson, what would it be? It's a bit of a deep question, isn't it? If Kizomba could teach the world one life lesson, what would it be? So for me, I think we've spoken about this actually quite.

Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07.47)

quite a lot on this episode. And I think that's for me, I'd probably be connection. Okay. And connection in just not just the connection in the dance, not that connection, but a bit of that, but more about relationships and meeting people, having fun, just connecting because no man is an island, right? We're here to experience things, here to experience life and other people. So this gives us a way to go out, meet people, connect in a fun way.

You don't have to make friends of every single person, but you can just be in a friendly space. Hey, how you doing? How's your week been this week? know, how was that like? Okay, great. Let's dance it out wherever. Okay, we're going to this party. You're going to that festival. Yeah, just connect, connect through the music and connect through life. So that would be, that would be for me. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you anyway, what would you say to the, to the question?

Well, thank you for your answer. like it. Can you repeat the question just quickly?

Yeah, sure. So if Kizomba could teach the world one life lesson, what would it be?

Yeah. It would teach that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14.462)

No matter your religion, your race, your physical look, we are all the same. can all, you know, we don't need to know anything about each other to have fun together, to connect with each other, to love each other, to embrace each other, to dance. This is what happens on the dance floor. can dance with someone I've never met. I don't know anything about them and I can really already connect with them and that's all I need to know.

So, yeah.

Fantastic, fantastic. Thank you for entertaining me. That last part in terms of the card game. Thank you so much. And we just want to say thank you, Nemanja. Thank you for taking the time to join us. We've had a great, great conversation. And everybody, as always, please make sure that you check out Nemanja from the socials there. And also tell us what you think about the episode. Tell us what you think about the podcast and where you can. Be sure to subscribe and let us know. And like I always say, keep dancing.

and we will see you on the dark force 2.

Wonderful. Thank you so much. Bye.