Episode #6: In Conversation with Kizomba Teacher Emmanuel, Mistre MeuSemba

Summary

In this episode of Kizomba Conversations, host Victor interviews guest Emmanuel MeuSemba, an experienced Kizomba dancer and teacher. They discuss Emmanuel's background, his love for music, his journey into Kizomba, and his teaching style. Emmanuel shares his experiences of learning and teaching Kizomba, including the challenges and bloopers along the way. He emphasizes the importance of being present and connected in the dance, and the joy of watching his students grow. Emmanuel also mentions the teachers who have influenced and inspired him throughout his dance career. Emmanuel emphasizes the importance of understanding where students are in their dance journey and creating a lifelong learning experience. He encourages having fun along the way and not being too rigid in the learning process. He also highlights the importance of recognizing students as individuals with their own experiences and needs outside of dance. Emmanuel  discusses the qualities of a good leader, including confidence, empathy, and the ability to give signals effectively. He also emphasizes the importance of mastering the basics and fundamentals of dance. Emmanuel shares his personal preference for Kizomba and Semba, but acknowledges that the popularity of dance styles can vary based on the music and cultural influences. He mentions the changes in the dance community due to the pandemic and expresses a mix of sadness and excitement for the festivals that are still around. In this final part of the conversation, Emmanuel discusses his favorite dance festivals and locations, his dance partner, the impact of Kizomba on his life, and his plans for the future. He also gives advice for aspiring dance teachers. Emmanuel  mentions several festivals and events, including Frog, Kwanzaa, Back to Basics, Mangole, Waston, Mokua, Toma Toma, Vilnius Kizomba Festival, and Bristol Sawick. He emphasizes the importance of teacher training and recommends Afro Latin Connection for running a school and Petru and Vanessa for learning the culture of Kizomba. Emmanuel  also talks about his upcoming parties, workshops, and private classes.

Takeaways

• Kizomba is a dance that brings people into the present moment and fosters human connection.

• Emmanuel emphasizes the importance of being comfortable and having fun while dancing, regardless of skill level.

• He values the growth and evolution of his students and enjoys watching them progress.

• Emmanuel has learned from a variety of teachers who have influenced his teaching style and approach to Kizomba.

• Consistency and dedication are key to improving in Kizomba, and structure provides a foundation for freedom in the dance. Understanding where students are in their dance journey and adapting the learning experience accordingly is important.

• Having fun and not being too rigid in the learning process can make the dance journey more enjoyable.

• Recognizing students as individuals with their own experiences and needs outside of dance is crucial.

• A good leader in dance possesses qualities such as confidence, empathy, and effective signaling.

• Mastering the basics and fundamentals of dance is essential for building a strong foundation.

• The popularity of dance styles can vary based on music and cultural influences.

• The dance community has undergone changes due to the pandemic, with some festivals no longer being held.

• There is a mix of sadness and excitement for the festivals that are still around. Emmanuel recommends several dance festivals and events, including Frog, Kwanzaa, Back to Basics, Mangole, Waston, Mokua, Toma Toma, Vilnius Kizomba Festival, and Bristol Sawick.

• He emphasizes the importance of teacher training and recommends Afro Latin Connection for running a school and Petchu and Vanessa for learning the culture of Kizomba.

• Emmanuel discusses the impact of Kizomba on his life, including expanding his connections and evolving as a person.

• He shares his plans for the future, including teaching weekly classes, hosting parties, and organizing the Kizomba Dance Experience.

• Emmanuel gives advice for aspiring dance teachers, highlighting the importance of creating students and seeking teacher training.

Sound Bites

"Kizomba is very special in the way it brings you into the moment."

"Just because it's basic doesn't mean it's not fun."

"Trying to teach too much too early... is a big challenge."

"We're here all the way through. And then the other important thing is this is a lifelong journey."

"We're still going to get to the destination, but one way is more fun and the other is more intense. I would rather we had fun."

"What they need from me right now isn't the steps. It's just a space to chill and have fun."

"France as a colonial power, you have a lot of the Africans in France, right? Who, especially like Congolese, can dance naturally."

"No bias. But enough is too good. It's just an objective opinion."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

01:31 Emmanuel's Journey and Love for Kizomba

07:19 Discovering Kizomba by Accident

09:43 Becoming a Teacher and Learning from Various Sources

18:27 Describing Kizomba and its Energy

23:00 The Joy of Teaching and Watching Students Grow

27:10 Bloopers and Challenges in Teaching

30:19 Influential Teachers and Their Impact

34:56 Emmanuel's Teaching Style and Approach

36:24 Creating a Lifelong Learning Experience in Dance

43:53 Qualities of a Good Leader in Dance

46:43 Mastering the Basics and Fundamentals

53:33 Responsibility in Dance: Leader vs. Follower

55:02 The Importance of Fun and Freedom on the Dance Floor

58:21 The Significance of Basics and Fundamentals

01:09:18 The Popularity of Dance Styles: Kizomba vs. Samba

01:11:31 Top Dance Festivals and Events

01:18:00 The Impact of Kizomba

01:22:59 Emmanuel's Future Plans

01:27:34 Advice for Dance Teachers

Transcript

(00:06.126)

Hello Kizomba enthusiasts and welcome back to another episode of Kizomba Conversations. As always I'm your host Victor and we're joined today by another amazing guest from the Kizomba dance scene. Now this person, my friend, is an amazing dancer. I've had the pleasure of being in one of his workshops and he definitely brings the fun and the energy into his Kizomba. So let's welcome Mr. Emmanuel, MeuSemba. Emmanuel, how are you doing sir?

I'm fine, I'm fine. Thank you for having me here for the first time. Thank you for being here. How are we doing? How are you feeling? How was the journey here? Coming. Might as well put it out there. I live in London. I live in London. I live in Bristol and obviously we've come to London. It takes about three hours to get here on a not so great day. But apart from that, I'm feeling good. Feeling good. Yeah. Well, we're excited to have you here and we're looking forward to a very good conversation about all things Kizomba. Looking forward to it too,

As always, there's so much to talk about. Now, you know, we're going to get into your journey, why you love Kizomba so much and what keeps you doing it. All that kind of stuff. Yeah. Looking forward to it. There's a lot to talk about. That's evolved over time as well. We all come in to start for different reasons and then your reasons for staying evolve as you interact with the scene. Absolutely. Yeah. So there's a lot, there's a lot to unpack. Cool.

Well, let's start at the beginning then, all right? So let's always start at the beginning and talk to us a bit. Well, we always want to try to find out about our guests. I mean, we always want to find out a bit about you. So not so much in Kizomba, but just who is Emmanuel? Yeah. So obviously you teach, people see you, but they don't necessarily know things about you. So what would you like to share with us? Good question. Yeah, it's a good one as well, because I think stepping into the teaching world,

there's a point that you get to where you kind of have to hold back enough of yourself so you maintain yourself because when you're teaching and in the community you're given. So there's that element of recharging. So I'm saying that because I know it's possible to come across as selfish. It's not that, it's just to give to everyone consistently. drains you. Yeah. So you have to have that balance. And I think that's a good place to start. What keeps me balanced is the thing

(02:30.424)

who I was before I danced. And for me, that's the accumulation of everything. So I'm a son, have parents. know, have a good relationship with my family, work. I'm an analyst. So I've been in the financial industry for about a decade now. And that's even, yeah, a bit of that is including dance. I love music. And that's been there even before.

So I've learned about five instruments up until my mid -20s. So drums, full drum kit, could play that. The rest, not so much, but drums was really my passion. Drums and then bass guitar. Learned acoustic guitar as well, piano. And there was a point when I was learning the sax. Wasn't very good at that. I didn't invest enough. I wish I did.

Like when you're older now, you realise the power of the sax. It's an amazing instrument. For other reasons as well. Yeah. Music's always been a big chunk of my life. Dad was a DJ growing up as well. I have four brothers and one sister. Two of my brothers are full-on  musicians, producers, artists as well. So music's like in the family. So when we came to Kizomba, the first thing I heard was the music. like, okay, yeah, there's a familiarity here.

Add that to the fact that when you come from Africa to Europe, the music you're exposed to changes. Fundamentally, you go from polyrhythmic to this 4x4 music. coming into England, I didn't hear as much of African Nigerian music in everyday life. When you come to Kizomba, that's the first thing I hear. Live instruments in the song? Not electronic?

Take me back. You know? So, yeah, that's been the transition. Music first, that's, still till now it's music. So yeah, think apart from that, there's a transition period in terms of location as well. There's a geographical story to be told, even from Nigeria. Being born in England, going back to Nigeria, coming back to England, and even in England living in South London, then going to live in Halifax, West Yorkshire for work.

(04:53.25)

Which is completely different. You go from London. Where it is. People that look like you to somewhere where. Being there, that was the first year they built a cinema in that little town. Wow. Yeah, so. Yeah. There's a joke, story to be told there as well before we even get to Kizomba, because it's that story that leads me to Kizomba. So I came to Bristol for work and then tried to get to know people in the new city. You start a dance amongst other things. Just, okay, let's have a bit of salsa, bachata, and then this thing called kizomba. And that's how. Yeah, he'll say, this thing called kizomba. 

This thing is called kizomba. Okay. Which no one prepares. Yeah, tell me about it, right? So just before that, you mentioned those instruments. Which one's your favourite? you say which one was your favourite? Now you're asking. At the time, the drums were my favourite. Yeah. I think when you're young and you want to just express yourself,

Some people choose a combat sport, some people choose football, the drums is the most active of all the instruments like physically at that time so I think that's what drew me to it but as I was growing older and then I can't say it's just the drums anymore. Yeah. Okay. So I can't force you to pick one then you're like... It's hard. No worries but you know the thing is then obviously because with Kizomba we have to talk about musicality

So because you're so in tune with music and instruments, would you just say your musicality is a pretty high level when it comes to dancing? I think I hear more than most people. Interesting. Yeah, I think I hear more than most people. My ears are definitely better trained to hear the layers of music then. Because when you've had to play it and play in a band, which means respecting all the other musicians, you get to listen to them. So that stays with you. I can always hear all the layers.

It's rich when you listen to it and that's the type of music that I draw to the most. Music with a lot of souls, I guess. It's really amazing. It influences my taste. Yeah. So it must be amazing for you when you're on the dance floor there and you get all these sounds and your body starts moving. Musical bonanza. Okay, we're gonna get into that a bit later on as well. So talk to us then about your specific journey into the world of Kizomba.

(07:19.182)

How did you get involved in Kizomba? How did you discover it? Yeah, it's a good one. Yeah, okay, so I've just moved to Bristol, myself and my brother, a new city. At that time, actually, I had a list of like 100 things to try that I wrote down. So stuff like skydiving, skiing. You still haven't done that. You know, and dancing, salsa, tango, whatever was on the list. So I was

just going through my list. Okay, let me try our salsa and all these partner dances. And then I've been doing this for maybe two months, salsa days. They had a party, which I thought was like one of the weekly parties. And I was going to that, which ended up being a festival, which I didn't know about. And somehow I got in, I just walked in, they let me in. And it was a Kizomba festival, not a salsa festival. So is that the first time you saw Kizomba? First time I saw it.

So it was totally an accident. thought, it's like salsa class. It's like, okay, this doesn't look like what we've been learning. But it looks fun. Music sounds amazing. And that's how I started learning. That's like the first ever introduction. Totally clueless. Still didn't understand what I was looking at. there was enough interest, enough to make me think, okay, I want to find out a bit more. And yeah, the people around. It's our common Wednesday, common Tuesday.

since then you start going to classes. I think probably worth mentioning is that the beginner period only lasted nine months. Okay. Yeah. So like, let's say I started Kizomba today, nine months later, I was asked to teach. Interesting. Yeah. So I was still, I wasn't even thinking about anything beyond the basics at that stage because it's a new dance, new city, new people.

I got to travel as well as part of that because everyone goes to festivals internationally. So I was just having a great time. So, it's like I started, got into it and very quickly I had to rapidly evolve. with that, because that's quite a short period of time. So does that mean that you picked up the moves or the concept quite quickly for you then to be able to become a teacher? No, no, no. no chance. I remember. Okay,

(09:43.34)

I've been learning for nine months. Part of that process is speaking to David Floor, who was the teacher at the time. I'm like, okay, there's music that I don't have. And he's a DJ. So he just literally put the hard drive, all his music in there, gave it to me, and go and listen to them. Okay. So, and I think potentially from his side to see someone that's that interested is maybe the reason why, but in terms of skill level, that's not the reason why. Yeah. I wasn't ready. I remember the first person I called at that time was Eddie.

Eddie. Eddie Vents As soon as David said, I'm leaving the country, I've got a new job opportunity. I want to go. I'd like you to take me to school. I called Eddie. was like, And the first thing he said is, you're not ready. OK. Yeah. I was like, I know. That's why I'm calling. Yeah. But once David leaves, be no one else. Right. So he's like, damn it. Because we have work to do. Yeah. And I flew over to the States for like two weeks, just straight training, just to get me started. And that just triggered a whole learning process.

You know, going from learning in the States, going to Angola, going to Portugal, Belgium, Portugal, anywhere I could find a teacher that was relevant enough or had enough skill that I know I can go to Angola. Yeah. So it kind of halted my enjoyment of the dance. Yeah. Because you go from nine months of freedom to not being an Angolan. Very hard. I don't speak Portuguese. I really like the language.

There's a whole culture attached to the dance that I have no clue about. Not to mention the technicality of the dance. And then you add to that the time that we're talking about. At that time, the methodology of Kizomba was still evolving. So it's not like there's a concentrated place where you could get all the information and everyone agreed on all the information. So it's like I'm learning from different teachers and all the basics are different.

So how did  you make it your own or how did you understand all that if you learned it from different teachers? I feel sorry for my students. The students that stayed with me the longest are my best friends. I love them the most because they've been the most tolerant. I've evolved as a teacher. When I'm learning from this teacher, it influences my current teaching style or methodology.

(12:09.538)

When I move to the next one, it will evolve again. So I'm constantly adding, removing, adding, removing. I think it's only in the last maybe three years that I finally settled on that. Okay. I appreciate what's valuable about all the methodologies I've learned. And I can fuse it into something that I think works. You know, I think that's where I'm more confident now than I was back then. Because again, so much conflicting information sometimes, you know, so it takes a while for it to really settle and this works. So your first teacher, his name? 

First teacher was David Floor. David Floor? Yeah. Okay. He was in at the moment. He used to teach well, he taught everywhere, Bristol, Birmingham, Cardiff, Bath, etc. Yeah, so he was doing the UK circuit quite well, DJ teacher. So then he moved to work. He's in the practice lab right at the moment, still teaching and running his own school there. 

Yeah, it still has been my home since then. And then after that, you say, was it Eddie after that? Yeah, Eddie after that, then Afro Latin Connection in Porto. I did pretty much their whole syllabus from beginning to the end because I thought they had the structure I needed. Pethu and Vanessa, I don't know if you remember. yes. I've done all of their courses as well. In Belgium, Jose Ndongala teaches Kizomba Love, which is Frans and Sarah who's in there as well at the time,I think, Rabel, Stephanie, there were quite a few people under that camp that I learned from as well. Then obviously Angola, learnt with as many of the Semba champions as possible because it gives you that flair. I just want to know what it is like learning in Angola? The answers from Angola, so what is it like? The trip to Angola.

It was interesting. We should talk about that. But in terms of learning, the first year I went there, I realised how unprepared I was. It humbles you. Yes. It really humbles you. No matter how much they pump your ego up in Europe, when you get to Angola, hey, palms. Yeah. Yeah. You find out where you are without anyone having to tell you. Exactly. Yeah. You're very humble. If you have an ego, you won't.

(14:35.5)

So calm down, go to Angola, come back. You can't. Did you find you were a better dancer after Angola? I was more motivated. More motivated. Yeah, and I had a direction as well, a sense of direction of, OK, so this is what's missing in my dance. OK. You know, I think that was the most useful. OK, as a dancer, this is what I'm missing most. And I could really try and plug that gap. Yeah. So I was more prepared the second time I went. I knew the teachers I wanted to learn from. I'd already spoken to them. I'm like, OK, cool. You're going to give me what I need to evolve as a dancer.

and in some ways as a teacher as well. Yeah. It's also a very different way of learning as well, which is probably one of the things that makes it intimidating is you get there and the level of breakdown that we have in Europe. Watch and do. Okay. You got to get ready. Nobody has to be primed for it. Because sometimes even while they're teaching, they're Amazing. Yeah. So something might change on the fly. I'll keep up

I really want to get it. I mean, how many times have you been there? I think about three times now. times. Be prepared. It's the most expensive city in the world. fact. Yeah. Really. I'm good. Yeah, be ready. Be ready. Be ready. Okay. Yeah, no. I mean, look, you know, so you're Nigerian. Yes. I'm next door. So I'm Ghana. Nice. Yeah. So we are next door. 

But what I'm saying is, you know, we have, you know, Africa, so we've got Highlife, we've got Afrobeats, and there, we all love all those, you know, types of music and, you know, it's part of our culture as well, we love that. But Angola has Kizomba. And you kind of think this dance is just amazing. And you're like, wow, you know, you kind of wish that you, you grew up on that as well. So that's why I'm just so fascinated by what it's like in Angola, especially with Semba as well. You know, how they dance it over there. 

It’s what it just looks like, it just looks amazing to me. I think that's one thing that's lost on us as well is that the breadth or the range of SEMBA is beyond just the show or the fast side of it. So when you go there, you get that sense. So for example, it would be natural for there to be a song playing and the ladies are gathered around it. They're just having fun. don't be part of dancing at that point. Get out of the way. Don't go and interrupt. Let them have their fun.

(17:02.892)

Other times they do want to dance. So whereas for us here in Europe it is always the same, we just want to marathon dance all the time. And I think we're also evolving as a community as well. In Europe, we're learning to take it easy a bit more. And I think from what I've seen, the pandemic's gone a long way to help us appreciate the connection side of the dance. Because I think everyone, as this is what I observe, people missed each other. 

Yeah, well when I say each other, I mean human connection. Yeah, so when the pandemic first came, I saw a lot of, there's a party set up, people have come, but for a while they're not going straight to dance, they're just talking. How have you been? What's been going on? know, just catching up first before you go dancing. You know, it's been a couple of years now, I don't know, maybe we'll go back to the way we were before, but I definitely saw that for a while. We remembered that we needed to speak to each other.

Get connected. know. Cool. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you so much. Good insight. Good insight. So let's talk about, well, what I want to find out from you is you've been teaching a long time. How many years now? I'm coming up to a decade. A decade, yeah. OK. So with the teaching, with your musicality background, you're well grounded in this dance. So if we are talking to people who are kind of new to kizomba and they look at it maybe and they think, I don't know. Yeah, that looks nice. I'm interested. What would you say to them? How would you describe Kizomba to somebody that's on the fence or just looking?

(18:48.61)

Yeah, for all the different spectrums of people that come. I think one thing I'd say is universal for everyone is being present. I think there's a beauty in the way Kizomba keeps you present in the moment. I'm not saying other dances and other art forms don't do that because you can look at a piece of art and it transports you somewhere else or brings you here. But I think Kizomba is very special in the way it brings you into the moment and both for the leader and the follower. It does different things for them. Not just being in the moment, being in the moment with someone. You know, it's a beautiful thing. Unless you already have that in your personal life already, I think when you finally have that dance in Kizomba, yeah, it's gonna transform. Okay. Yeah. Because it's very easy for us, like, and everyone resonates with this, to be busy in life.

I explain it as the different hats that we wear. Father, son, husband, employee, employer. Whatever hats you wear, when you come to dance, you take them off slowly. And maybe you'll be left with one, which is a dancer. And that's the only hat that you're wearing at that moment. So I think if you're craving that human connection in a way that's different, I think this is the dance for you. Okay. All right. So you're basically about connection, really? Yeah. 100%.

Fantastic. Cool. Now, it will just explain very briefly the difference between Kizomba, Semba and Tarraxinha. This is mainly for people who are new to the dance, just want to make sure they understand the kind of difference between those three. Yeah. Kizomba, Semba, Tarraxinha. When we say Tarraxinha, I put Tarraxinha and Ghetto Zouk together. Yes. And then you have Kizomba in the middle, and then you put Semba at the end. 

One way I explain it is to do with energy. So if you had the Tarraxinha and Ghetto Zouk at this end, you have the lower energy. And low doesn't necessarily mean not intense. It could be low energy, but intense, you know. So you have lower energy there. And in terms of movement, we're on the spot mostly. Don't move around too much. Kizomba has a bit of that low energy, but then it spikes every now and again. You walk, you calm down, you walk, you calm down. And Semba is just on the go.

(21:16.718)

So that's the spectrum of energy, I'd say, because I think that gives an idea of it. Musically, they're trends. So like you say, Tarraxinha is usually slower music in terms of speed. Kizomba again in the middle, spiking up and down in terms of speed and energy. And then Semba. Gotta be careful. There are slow Semba songs, and mid tempo Semba songs, and there are high tempo Semba songs, but the energy is generally continuous and it doesn't stop. Once a Semba song starts, you're gonna keep going, keep going. I think that'll be one or two ways to describe the difference. What else should I say? Musically, you have the electronic side of Ghetto Zouk and Tarraxinha. So it's usually more synthesised music. Kizomba and Semba are more live music. Although Kizomba now, obviously, technology is in times of change. It's becoming more of a mess. Like it's harder and harder to tell.

what genres a song is because the musicians are blending everything together. Which is what art is, now, just putting it all together really. It keeps evolving. Yeah, I'd say. 

No, but I like the answer. you explained it really well. So it's about energy, right? Yeah, in terms of how they split out. That's great. Okay. Let's move on. I like all of them. You like all of them, you got it. Okay. I was going to ask you this later.

I won't forget. Alright, this is a random question then, okay. What brings you the most joy about teaching Kizomba to students?

Let's try it.

(23:05.774)

Does it bring you joy? Yeah, there's a number of things to be honest. There's a number of things.There's a joy in watching people grow.

In general, I like that because I think that's more of my nature. like watching people grow, evolve, learn new things, get things. And that's before we get to Kizomba. Just in general, I like that. Helping people grow, watching them grow, just being part of people's journey. Right. I think it's a precious part of who I am. And so in Kizomba is the same thing, you know, being part of someone's growth as someone who's already walked through that path. I think I'm especially precious about it because I know what it's like to not know anything in this dance. 

You know, I really, I really know. I mean, I've had texts from teachers that see me dancing and they'll text me or call me and I'm like, bro, you're dancing off beat. Yeah, but we need to know this. Yeah, stings a little bit, a little bit, but. I'm a little bit surprised though, because you're the musicality king, but it's all good. Yeah, this is it. This is real. And that's what I mean. So I could have a student.

I'm like, your music's good, but when you start dancing, you just go off beat. I know what that feels like and I know why you're doing it. It's not because you're not hearing it, it's the nerves. Especially as a leader, when you're learning and you're trying to remember all the steps and you think you're a boring dancer and she's bored of my steps, I do the same steps all the time, the same thoughts. I'm like, man, just peeking my mind in. I believe, I've been through it, I know what it feels like. I put you off beat.

You're worried, you're thinking about too many things at the same time. I can hear the music. Is she going to be, is she going to follow? Am I leading properly? Everything's been through your mind at that point. Now as a teacher, I know that it's very important that I help my students. Just take it easy. You're going to be fine. That's what I needed to hear at that time as well. Yeah. So.

(25:10.574)

What else?

Yeah,  So watching them grow, basically. Watching them grow. And that has a few layers to it as well. So sometimes it's watching them grow in general. And then it's the moment I can dance with them creatively, like my students, especially the followers. It's a joy. Like, I've had to restrict myself because you're growing and you're evolving. Now I can really push the levels. I can go for it. can be... It's a great thing to watch your students get to that stage where you can actually hear them dancing the way they've watched you dance with other people. Yeah and then there's other things as well. That's more ego I guess. Yeah, so there's a satisfaction of watching other people have fun with my students. Okay yeah yeah. You'd be in a club you'd be like you know that's mine that's mine yes. 

You had a great time dancing with Bristol. You should come more often. Yeah. So there's that too. That's cool, man. It's cool. So yeah, rewarding and watching people grow. Yeah. It's a great thing. You make good connections as well. Over the years, we've given up some friendships. They come from random places. Yeah. You can't predict who you're going to get and who's going to resonate with you. Yeah. So when it does click, you're like, wow, this has been awesome. And that's a new relationship that I didn't have before.

(26:42.388)

This is what Kizomb does to you, right? You make some great friends through this amazing dance. So, absolutely. All right. Cool. Thank you very much. Now, are there any moments in your dancing career where things haven't gone so smoothly? So are you able to share with us some, you know, bloopers or maybe, I don't know, did you fall down when you were teaching or something? Did you miss a step or anything that comes to mind?

You can share with us. Where do I start? The bulk of them are when I first started teaching. Probably the first two years I started teaching, forgetting how to count. Forgetting how to count?

Wow yeah. Consistently as well. Seriously, Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like lessons planned, you get there. Two,  seven. What number are we at again?

Yeah, Forgetting the routine yeah come on, loads of those. Yeah. Especially when I'm teaching like two classes and we get to the stage of the syllabus where the routines are long for both classes. Start one, mix up with the other. Yeah, painful and that. And then a bunch of first times. First time performing, first time teaching at a festival, first time doing everything. Is that just nerves? 

I'd say nerves and inexperience as well. It's hard to be confident about something you've never done. Yeah. Doesn't mean you can't be, but even if you're confident the first time, it won't be the same as after you've done it a while. Yeah. You know, there's a relaxedness to the way I teach now that I didn't have at the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. I think probably the biggest blunder as a teacher, and I think a lot of teachers do this as well, is trying to teach too much too early because you think the students are bored.

They're not going to be entertained. They're going to go to XYZ teacher because that teacher does all the fancy stuff. That is a big challenge. At that stage, there's money involved. You need to pay for a venue, which you compromise.

 (28:55.931)

That's a big challenge. No, but thanks for sharing. I mean, these are kind of big, we're all human, right? And we never get to where we want to get to without practice sounds boring, but it's always practice, right? Gets us there and making bloopers and all this kind of stuff and makes us better dancers. So I was going to hear this. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, there's a lot more. But what I do want to ask though is when you lost your routine, how did you recover that? Did your students help you?

Yeah? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do. They do. They'll correct me. Yeah. Yeah. There's a point you get to it, like, guys, I'm human too. I make mistakes. I forget. Yeah. We're all in this together. Take what you need to take from this. Yes. Don't do as I do. Do as I say. OK. Yeah. They definitely help. And I think I've got a lot more students that have been with me long enough now that they know.

I need them as much as they need me in that school's classes. That's where my honest schools are. Cool. So we're talking about teaching there, talking about making some bloopers. then obviously to get good, you have to practise like we just said. But who are some of the teachers that you look up to or you're inspired by or helped you in your development? Who would you say that they are? It's a long list. OK. Yeah, it's a long list. It's because different teachers impacted and added value in different ways. You know, I'll start with the followers. So I had a period, especially in those nine months where I was just dancing for fun, where I wasn't even part of my development. didn't care about anything complicated. I was just an easy guy, doing my basics, music's there, and having fun. That was it. But in that period, I met people like Lana Zamora, Paula Lana, Maria Hover.

In Germany, she used to dance with Arnold, who comes to mind, Pauler from Athletic Connection. And the impact they had is when you're a leader in that first nine months, you're in your head a lot. You're insecure about everything. And they made me feel comfortable. 

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They made me feel like my lack of advanced intermediate in previous steps didn't.

impact our ability to have fun and connect on the dance floor. I think it's probably the most precious thing to give to leaders when they learn. Like it makes a difference in their trajectory. You know, cause now I hear those stories of guys who are like, when I was a beginner, nobody wanted to dance with me, blah, blah, blah. Now that I'm good, they act in a certain way. But because I didn't have that, I felt like I was dancing with the international teachers. Yeah. And they were having fun and I was only doing my basics.

I'm confident to dance with anyone at this point in my dancing. And even when I'm teaching, I give that. Yeah, it's fun. Just because it's basic doesn't mean it's not fun. Yeah. That's a great line. Just because it's basic doesn't mean it's not fun, right? Yeah. How you execute that basic again in tune with the music, all of this stuff, right? It makes it a unique experience. Even if it's another leader dancing to the same song, it's a different dance. It's hard to transmit that at the beginning, but I can do that better now because I had teachers who really helped me feel comfortable regardless of what stage I was dancing in. So it's a weird, important thing that the followers give us if done properly. And then you get onto the technical side. So teachers, from technicality, 

Eddie is up there, and has to put Kizomba Afro Latin connection for sure. Kizomba Love is good as well. Well, I've had some friends now, like Vasco, for example, every now and again we'll meet up and we just exchange. Vasco is a teacher, DJ from France. In the UK, I would have to say Nino. Nino is like my training buddy. So we started roughly the same time, teaching together, learning from Eddie as well.

And he's really had my back throughout the whole process. Like he used to come from Birmingham to Bristol to teach in my class. So he taught the intermediate while I taught the beginners and improvers for like two years straight. dude, we've evolved as teachers together. there's a value added just having a comrade. What comes to mind? I can't list that one. In Angola, I got to say

(33:37.475)

Epifanio, Silvio, Adilson to some extent. Those two, Silvio and Epifanio really helped me define what direction I wanted with my dance.You know, because like I said, I went into that phase of just learning as a teacher, learning the dance culture, learning how to teach. I think in the last two or three years, I've now started to go back to where I stopped, which is, I actually want to enjoy this dance. I start taking off the teacher hat and just leaving the dancer on, know, type of thing. So it's all coming together from the experience across all the teachers. Okay, great. That's good. That's good that you were able, blessed and able to get that full round of people to learn from. That's fantastic. It's been valuable. I appreciate it all the way. Yeah, because they gave me their time. Yeah, 100%.

So then moving on from that then, you've got all these different great teachers. So then what's the essence of your teaching style? Might be a tough question, but you Okay, let me put it another way. if, okay, I'm coming to your class for the first, yeah, let's say the first

What can I Basically. Yeah. If you're coming for the first time, let's take you on that journey. When you first come, I'm going to acknowledge that you're here. You're going to have fun. But it's not my intention to teach you anything. It's just we've come to see what it's like. then give you a space to make a decision about, actually, do I want to give it a bit more effort or dedication? It doesn't need to be full. It's just enough to be a bit more regular. When people come and you leave after a month and then you come again in two months and three months, I kind of see you, but at the same time, I know your progression is going to be slow. Yeah. Wish I could say it a different way, but that's the reality. It is what it is. The people who are going to improve are those who are consistent. So if we say you're going to be consistent, what you're going to get is structure.

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You know, because of the structure, there's a lot of freedom, but we were not going to escape the structure. My methodology has a structure and I don't change it. Everything around it constantly changes. Okay. Yeah. Because as a human being and as a dancer, I shouldn't have to go through different phases.  You know, there's sometimes where things are going on at home. Yeah. I can't really practise at home or dance as much, but I still want to come weekly so that I can get out of that space. Cause that's another side of teaching that we should probably talk about.

In terms of why people come to dance, you know, so that's something I'm always conscious of, trying to get to know my students and see, where are you right now in life and in dance? And based on that, we can either increase the intensity or turn it down a bit. But we're here all the way through. And then the other important thing is this is a lifelong journey. Like I really try to make sure you get that. You don't come into this dance and leave after two years.

You might say you might intend to. But you're not going to. You really get it. From the minute you have that one dance, the dance, we're going to be here for a while.

Once you have the dance, I know we're going to be here for a while. So it's important that we have fun along the way rather than, yes, I said, it's a structure, but let's not be so rigid on it. It's there to give us a track, a guideline. We follow it, but it's loose, relaxed throughout the whole process because we're going to be here for a while. Now, if I explain it in a different way, Let’s say it takes a thousand Saida’s to master how to do a saida, we can rush to do them all in two years. And now you've mastered the saida. You've still got 20 years of life. You're going to be doing it. Or we can relax and maybe it takes you four or five years to master your saida. You can only do 500 a year. You know, 200 a year. We're still going to get to the destination, but one way is more fun and the other is more intense. I would rather we had fun. 

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Once they step out of my class, I don't know what type of life is waiting for you. Some people have a great work -life balance and home life is good, marriage, relationships, family is great. Others don't. And again, going back to that journey as a teacher, first I'm focused on teaching the class the lessons, making sure I'm teaching, but after a while you realise, my students are human. They're going through a human experience.

What they need from me right now isn't the steps. It's just a space to chill and have fun. That's really interesting to hear. I think I've heard that before. But being in tune to that is very interesting. Yeah. Very good, I would say. Yeah. It's a transition from being a schoolteacher or dance school teacher to a community leader when you start to see the people. You see them as people. It's like, they're not just students. They're not just paying your bills.

The human being is going through a real human experience, which sometimes is nice, sometimes it's not. Just like my life. It's not a straight trajectory, right? It goes up and down, up and down, up and down. So being in tune with that, being able to say to someone, yeah, I got your back. Sometimes it's been doing CVs for people on interview prep, because that's what they needed outside of the dance to get out of that situation. It's yeah, actually.

I'm good at this. I used to be a recruiter. It's fine. I'll prepare you for the interview. I'll do the CV, whatever, and get you the job. But that changes how you are in class. Because that thing that's been bugging you, that's stopping you from being present, has been dealt with. So now you're happy in class. And yeah, some instances, like for example, I'm teaching, coming to class one day, and I meet two of my students, followers. One's sad, one's happy.

The one that's sad is usually happy. Okay. Sad today. The one that's happy is usually sad. Happy today. I asked them both, what's wrong? I just broke up with my boyfriend. Same response for both. I just broke up with my boyfriend. One person's reaction is, yes, finally. I love those reactions.

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That's going to impact how they are in class, obviously I'm not god. I can't solve everyone's problems. if I can assist. Nice. It's just interesting that you're in tune, or you try to be in tune with the people that come to your session. That's great. OK, so we're talking about, you know, obviously those people in our classes. Now, when it comes to dancing yourself,

Are there any particular moves that you'd like to execute? In terms of favourite moves. So, you know, if somebody sees you doing that, okay, he's happy. I get you. It's a good question. I like it. It's not so much the moves, it's you can tell when I get to a stage of expression, which is where we're trying to get to. I call it dancing nirvana. And for me, dancing nirvana is when you get to a stage where there isn't much interruption between the idea and the execution. 

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So maybe I know the song, I know a break is coming and I've decided, this is all split second decisions, I've decided or have an idea of what I want to do, there's no interruption, whether it's the follower or the DJ doing something funny or the floor messing about, there's nothing that interrupts us getting to that place. That's beauty for me. And you can tell I'm there when I'm sort of in sync with the music, the ups and downs, the flows obviously going at the song well enough to some degree that's usually for me where I'm in the zone and there aren't any specific steps really, okay depends on the song. I go through phases so if I'm learning something I'm gonna do more of it while I'm learning it doesn't mean it's now my new favourite. It’s the flavour of the month.

Yeah, it's the flavour of the month. Yeah, I think there's a trick that we learned last year, my brother and I, that I've overused this throughout the whole year. Just because we learned to, we did some practice and since then I've been using every demo. Just because I'm practising. Yeah, this year will be something else. Alright, so it just depends on the song, the person you're dancing with, the moment and yeah. But you've got enough tricks up your sleeve to do lots of different ones anyway. Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, Cool. I'm tempted to ask you. Well, I was going to get you to demonstrate it to me, but you haven't done one, so we can't do that. Sorry. It's all good. We'll do it next time. Next time. All right. Well, in terms of that, then, let's think about that. So that question I asked you, then, let's take it a bit deeper. So this question is about leading or following. OK. So what makes, in your opinion, a really good lead and follower? I'm going to start.

start with the lead. What you need to have to be a very good lead.

(43:50.669)

There's different layers to it that make up a good leader. I think probably I want to start with who you are. I think leaders, men in general, underestimate how intuitive followers are. And in my opinion, I think there's an element of how you lead that's a reflection of your personality.

If you're obnoxious, you can tell them when you dance. If you're arrogant, you can tell when you dance. If you're too timid, you can kind of tell when you dance, the way you lead, know, not assertive enough. If you're faking it, I mean, you can tell. You've to fake it till you make it. Yeah, they can tell. Yeah, so there's an element of actual genuine confidence in yourself that you need to be a good leader. And that doesn't necessarily mean being overt in your leading.

It's just being sure that even if there is a mistake, I got it covered. And I think that reflects immediately in the way you hold straight away. You know, there's confidence relaxed and you know, that no matter what happens, I've got this. What could possibly happen? Yeah, The floor's gonna crack. There's gonna be an earthquake. Other than that, we got this and the follower can tell that. And I start with that because I think for a leader to have a good dance, the follower needs to trust him. Unless it's a solo dance.

For this partner dance, the follower needs to trust you and it's your job to make sure she trusts you. You start with confidence from the inside. That confidence for me has a layer of empathy. You know, a layer of empathy, a very important layer of empathy that shows in the way you dance, where you give space to the follower, you know, an egotistical leader. The whole dance is about you.

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The entire dance is about, she feels like she's been dragged to do what you want. The empathetic leader we are dancing. So you think the follower could feel that? If it's an egotistical person, you think they can feel that when they dance with them? think so. Yeah, okay. No, it's interesting. I think so. think a follower can feel whether or not the leader is considerate of them. Okay. You know, are you actually thinking about me?

Just generally, if I'm walking with my sister, my mom, if I'm walking, I'm checking, she is okay. Is everything alright? I'm across the road now, she is alright. They're adults, but it's my nature as a leader. know, if someone's with me, they're under my protection. Natural. Maybe it's African, maybe it's old fashioned, but that's how leaders are raised. So, in the dance, for you to dance the whole dance, you don't care about. I don't think it's an enjoyable dance for the followers. And then you get to technique, know, that translates into technique, technique

being able to lead and give signals at the right time early enough. Those little things, balance, weight transfer, posture, all those techniques are fueled by all of that. You have a very egotistical approach. The way you hold the lady is going to be more about you. So I say from the leader's side, those are the things that I look for. Yeah, like I said, technique is there. If you do your virgula and you're lifting up your heel, I'm looking at you like, fundamentals class, please. Not going to get into all of that. But I think that's the core of what makes a good leader. Yes, you have to be humble. Humble enough for us to tell you, yeah, your fundamentals are getting a bit shaky. We need to improve on them. Maybe you shouldn't be doing these high level techniques yet and you're humble enough to receive them, you know. And even as a teacher, I've had moments like that where I'm dancing with my student that I dance with every week and I got carried away. And she said, actually, I just had an operation on my ankle.

So I can't do this kind of, yeah, it's arrogant of me. Why didn't I check first? Why did I assume? So it influences the way I approach it now. So now when I want to dance with someone, even if I danced with you last week, I am still gonna start from the beginning. Make sure you're okay, build it up so that we get a conversation. We get a chance for you to tell me, if there's anything I shouldn't do, create the environment for you to get that feedback. It has to be important to you. Okay.

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If you do that. Say it. Are you good at that? Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. Trigger anything? Any thoughts? No, no. think it's important to understand. You talk about posture as well. But I was just very interested, because like you say, everyone's different when it comes to personalities. And that reflects a lot in dancing, whether you're timid or whether you're more confident, whatever it is. So it's just interesting to hear that a person can actually feel.

that when, you know, it's all about me. Look, everyone's different in terms of how they dance, but it's just, I sense it. I think a lot of men and leaders underestimate how intuitive they are. Like it's natural, their algorithm is just built differently. They can sense it. So they really get a sense of your personality, for sure. On the followers' side, it's a hard one, because I think the scene is nice, it does well for followers and in some ways it doesn't encourage the parts that I wish it did. So the nature of the scene is such that we kind of lead the followers down the track of to be a good follower is…

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I hate the word just follow. You know, whereas the technique that we really need is to be able to respond to signal. The most important for the follower. I could deal with, I have a, there's a layer or spectrum of the follower that I think is undernourished, which is the expression of the follower, the confidence of the follower. I don't think we give enough space for that, but we can't really get to that until we master the technique as a follower.

You know, it's very important that followers start with that basic communication that we have as, you know, two people dancing with their bodies. That first part needs to, in my opinion, needs to be definitely ironed out. Technique wise, again, how you walk for followers. Very, very important. I see a lot of followers that don't straighten their knees when they walk, which is a weird thing because we don't walk like that in real life. Nobody walks with their knees bent the whole time.

Bend straight and bend straight. As soon as the music comes, followers just do something weird. Yeah. So I don't, that I still don't understand why it happens yet. I have a theory about heels at the moment. It's still a theory. have it. But I think followers from my observation dance differently in heels than in flats. And the dance is an African dance. You don't have heels there. It's a European concept. So fundamentally, the biggest issue I find with followers is we didn't start with good fundamentals, good basics. And it's walking with your heel down, flat on the floor. That's how the dance is, an African dance. don't tiptoe the whole time. Even going down to African mythology, it's from the earth. European is from the sky. We are from the earth. So we're grounded. When I see in Europe, the followers I have the most issues with are those.

In fact, if they just did that, we don't even need anything else, to be honest. But taking it further is to have that expression. And I have to say further because it requires a man that gives space. Yeah. Which is why I said that first for the leaders. For the follower to express herself, I have to give space for it. And I found gear the whole time. Me, me, me, me, me. The follower has no space to express herself. You know, and that really translates into going back to that first nine months when I was enjoying myself. The moments where I'm new to the dance.

(52:01.954)

Maria knows the song, she knows the break is coming. I don't. She would just grab me and do something. But there's enough freedom in the dance for her to do that. Tania would be translating the songs to me because I didn't speak the language. But there's enough freedom for us for her to just randomly start doing that. So as a leader, you have to give the space. Now the followers, when they give you the space, you gotta do something. You will see this the most in this instance. The man is dancing in close hold then he releases the follower. Watch the faces.

They panic, The follower panics. Panics. Because now the man is not leading. It's just about you to do something. I can see on their faces straight away, they're like, bro, come back. Come back, quickly. Let's get back to this hold. Which is why I say we haven't done enough to give the followers that sense of self -expression. Because we're still stuck in the follow, follow, follow faze, but really the dance is here where two individuals can dance. Sometimes we dance together, sometimes we dance apart.

come back. There's a story being told. see. Yeah. I see. OK. So we could get into this deeply. Yeah. We could go. We could go. We could go OK. With all that, Who do you think has, I don’t know if this is the right question, but who do you think has more responsibility, the leader or the follower? Or is it equal?

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The leader man. Leader. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, you call it, It’s the name. You take responsibility, you take the blame. Doesn't mean the follower doesn't have things to improve on, but the dance is in your control. You know, whether it means turning it down to adapt to the level. It's you. Yeah. You know, if I try to do a couple of virgulas and I realise I can't do it, yeah, well, do passada. Okay. I'm turning down, passada, do estrella’s. You know, if I realise, oh, we can't even do that side to side and travel mate.

Yeah, keep bringing it down until she's comfortable and she can have fun at that stage because she's not thinking about the technique. Yeah, you know, it's the leader's job. And sometimes it's my job to push her as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So would you say then that with leading then, if you're dancing with someone who's like a beginner, let's say you're an individual who's danced for some time and the club is finished, you know, there's been a beginner's class, they want to dance and all that and you're leading.

Should it be easy for you to move them the way you want them to move? In other words, can a leader make anybody look like a dancer, if that makes sense? I think so. Yeah, it doesn't take a lot. It doesn't take a lot. Really, all you have to do is have fun. Yeah, because yeah, the fancy stuff is great. I'm not going to take that away. The fancy stuff is great. Doing all the tricks is good. Even as an audience, looking at it is great. Or watching someone, two people genuinely have fun, trumps that. It trumps that all the way. Like they're having fun. They're sweating, they look raggedy and they don't care. That's the freedom we're all looking for. That's what's so bad, isn't it? That's the freedom we're all looking for, really. It's to get to that stage where I don't give a damn about what anyone thinks. I'm having fun. I'm not a dad today. I'm not an employee today.

I didn't want to see the kids. I'm tired of talking to my grandma because she's bugging me. Whatever it is, I'm here. mean, the times when it gets dire, I have a student every year, they're like, thank you for having a class this week because this is the week that my dad died and every year anniversary, I don't want to be at home. You know, when that person comes there, what's the point of coming and then you are restricted yourself? You know, you want to

(55:59.478)

Let go, be someone else. Reinvent yourself. Yeah, that's what we're chasing. We're all looking to see true freedom on the dance floor. So if I could get a total beginner to be having fun, making silly faces. Yeah, just relax. I've won. Yeah, I love it. I love it. it. Yeah. Well, I guess I was just coming more from technicality. Yeah. But no, you're right. That's what it's really all about, isn't it? Yeah, I think that more than the technicality, if you could get the follower to get out of their head. Stay on the followers for a little bit because it's relatively easy for us, or it's different for us what keeps us in our head. What keeps us in our head during the dance is mostly dance related. For the follower, what keeps her in her head is not always dance related. It's all the... because everything's connected in the female brain. So it's all of them, from dishes... Can I attempt to talk about the female Yeah. Two gentlemen, please. We could just sidestep that. But it's the dishes, it's the friggin bathroom, it's work, it's everything all at once and we don't realise that the addictive substance that we're selling is... she's here. Nowhere else. For a woman to get that, or a follower to get that, that is dancing nirvana for them. And the more you can give that.  It's our responsibility. Hard work, It's not easy. It's not easy. All right, no, cool. Thank you. right, so that's cleared up some stuff for me as well. Yeah. All right, so let me ask you about, OK, I think we talked about this already.

(57:53.856)

You mentioned it already, but I just want to come back to it very quickly. So it's about basic steps. Sure. Okay. So a lot of times I've asked this before to some guests on the show about basic steps. I just want to get your thoughts on the importance you have on basics and fundamentals, because oftentimes we see people, especially men, we want to run before we can walk sometimes. Yeah. So what are your thoughts on mastering the basics steps? 

I think for a long time, I had a reputation as, I don't know, the basics guy or the fundamentalist guy. Because that's why I went on about it the most.

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At least with me and Meu Semba, the aim is always to give you the fundamentals, the foundations so that you can go anywhere else after that. You can go to another teacher, you can even go to another country, you can go to Angola and you never be really out of your depth. You know, that's where I try to get to with the fundamentals and the basics is they're that important. They're your foundations, you're literally your foundations that you build

And if they're shaky, if they're not set correctly, what you're building has a high probability to crumble. And even taking it further, even if you started with good basics, and I've been through this where I started with good basics and I really honed in on them. I was teaching the basics a lot. So it's really sharp. And then going to Angola, get inspired, you start experimenting more and then you start to lose the basics because your focus is changing to these more complicated, expressive stuff. You start to lose the basics and I realised you kind of have to do both hand in hand. So if you're just starting, if you're lucky, you've got a good teacher that will really give you good fundamentals, good basics. But then as you start to evolve, you still can't lose it. You have to keep touching base with it. So the way I run the school is even if you move on to the intermediate or improvers class, you still have to do the first class.

Just talk, that's just life. So you don't lose it and it's fun. And as a community as well, if you have new people coming to learn at your school or your community, if they see that the experienced dancers are in the fundamentals class, they never get into their heads. Now I'm in the improvers and I've left this class now. I'm no longer, I'm too good for this class. No, everyone's in this class. This is our way. It's not negotiable.

This is just it. Everybody does the fundamentals class. Period. I don't have that question anymore. You know, so I appreciate not everyone does it that way and I appreciate why as well. Fair play, but this is how I think it's sustainable. Because it's so important, 100%. I don't even know if there's anything more important. It's so weird. This section is very odd. I feel like we're going round in a circle. So I've been to Angola, now Cape Verde as well.

(01:00:58.782)

What I see as the beauty of the dance is what am I going to be doing? How am I going to be dancing when I'm 50, 60, 70? Because that's what I see. I see a lot more mature people dancing. They're not doing the fancy stuff, They're having fun. They're socialising. They're dancing. It's very easy. There's no complex. OK, you come to Europe. Because of salsa, you have to add all this fluff. OK, fine.

We've added it. What's going to happen at the end of the day when I go to a festival or a party towards the last hour, what are people doing? No one's doing all the fancy stuff. Everybody's just there. Sway, chill it, passada. Deep down inside. That's the dance. Only a few steps is Kizomba really, isn't it? A few basic steps. And then we just put all these extra stuff on it to make it fancy. And when you do get older, what are you gonna be doing? Your bones can't handle all these tricks, man. You're gonna be back to the basics anyway. So we're just going round in a circle. It's what I see. It's like, we're gonna be back. Like when I'm tired at night, nah, man. I'm not moving, barely moving. My steps are small. My repertoire is reduced. I'm just there enjoying the dance with my partner. That's it. So yeah, we'll see how it pans out.

Messages, basics, super important. 100%. Keep doing it. Don't think you're too advanced for basics. Basic. Never too Is the message. All the way through. OK. Cool. Let's make sure we get that message clear. OK. So your name. I've never gone back probably to the beginning. But your name. MeuSemba. Yeah. MeuSemba Why that name and how did it come about?

 (01:03:05.784)

Yes. What was the name of the school when I took over? It was called Bristol Kizomba Romantica. That was the name that embodied David flaw. Sexy guy, very stylish, DJ. So that was it. And then I took over and like I said, my journey's taking me everywhere. I've learned from as many people as possible and it was time to have my own brand.

My own signature and I chose MeuSemba because of my is what male means and in Portuguese, yeah, MeuSemba  means My Semba and it's, it was the best way I could encapsulate my journey. I'm Nigerian. I really like being Nigerian. I don't want to be Angolan or anyone else. I like my culture. I'm also British, right? Immigration is the thing.

I'm a hybrid of many things. You know, I'm not just one thing and MeuSemba is an expression of that. You know, it's an expression of all the things that come together to make up who I am. You know, some of it is the musical experience I had before. Some of it is leadership in general. So being able to speak in front of people, all that stuff. I didn't get that skill in dancing. I got that before, you know, and even parallel to that because we all have careers and things that we're doing and family. So leading is a layer of my life as well.

Being analytical is a professional skill that I bring into the dance. So there's a number of things that come together to make up MeuSemba and I believe it's the same for everyone else. There's no requirement for you to imitate to the point where you lose yourself. There's an element of imitation and growing, 100%. You've got to imitate first before you can evolve things. Fair play.

(01:05:06.39)

It shouldn't come at the cost of your heritage, your history. You know, you shouldn't like this dance so much that you're no longer, you know, Ghanaian or Nigerian or Swedish or whatever it is that you are. Now you are the embodiment, the second coming of Angola. Bruh, take it easy. It's not necessary. It's really not. So I think it's an important message that I'm trying to get out of that, guys, I'm just being myself. Okay. So yeah, so... Meu Semba is yourself. Yeah. And anyone identifies or resonates with that, yourself. Yeah, it's like on the dance floor, be yourself, 100%, whoever you are. You know, if you're Scottish and you wanna do your dance, go for it. Like, there's no rules, it's art. We can't have rules for art. The whole point is it's meant to be totally expressive, you know? So without the restriction. Yeah, that's why.

It's a combination of everything. So it's a very strong reflection of you just reinforcing to make sure that you're being yourself. Yeah. And that's what's been gotten me through so far. Yeah. great.  Thank you. I'm going to ask you, go back to a question that I said I was going to go back to. So you actually remembered. Yeah, man. Memories do. I was hoping. Right. Kizomba, Semba, Tarraxinha, right? Percentage wise. Nah, I get this. You get it all the time. get it all the time. You know where it's come from. So 100%, how do you break it down in terms of which one you like best? Or are they all equal across the board? Or is it 50 % Kizomba, 25% Semba, 25? Oh, she is hard. Yeah. It's hard.

What would you say?

(01:07:09.516)

Ooh, OK. I know I'm going to answer it now. So personally, in terms of desire,

(01:07:20.814)

I think it would be 40% Semba, 40% Kizomba and 20%.Tarraxhina Yeah,  Tarraxinha gets  20 % in terms of desire. Yeah, I like Ghetto Zouk and Tarraxinha. The amount of time in that zone isn't that many. I can switch between Kizomba and Semba generally relatively easily in terms of, you know, because it's a spectrum

I don't know, but Semba and Kizomba are kind of similar in energy. Yeah, I can actually live in that zone for a bit. But in terms of reality, I actually get more requests for Kizomba dances than the other two. In order, it would be Kizomba, then Semba, then Tarraxinha. Not many people even believe I can dance Tarraxinha, which is good, no problem. Not trying to change that, that's fine.

Most people see me as a Samba dancer and there aren't that many people that dance Semba that much. So I don't get many requests for that. But Kizomba and Ghetto Zouk yeah. In reality, that's why I dance the most. That's the people that ask me to dance the most. That's what's played the most as well in parties and clubs. So yeah, but in terms of desire, Kizomba and Semba are similar enough for me to resonate with it. I could be in the zone.

Tarraxinha needs a certain mood. All right, no, that's fine. There's no right or wrong answer. I just wanted to find out what you thought. So 40, 40, and 20. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. So another question comes to mind. Why do you think that Semba is not as popular as Kizomba over here? Music. Yeah, music. Because.

Yeah, this is the West, this is Europe. It's gonna be European music first. European -esque European sounding music that people resonate with first. Doesn't mean the most, doesn't mean it will stay the same throughout their journey in dance. I think the first initial is gonna be, you know, that Ghetto Zouk R &B -ish westernised music first. And then because a lot of kizomba now have a zouk influence, it can still be kizomba. But when you start going to Semba,

(01:09:48.172)

Semba is pretty much locked, and we like it that way. It's been locked for a long time. Even its evolution is within itself, unless you have that appreciation for polyrhythmic music, I don't know if it will resonate with people on mass as much as Kizomba and Ghetto Zouk and Tarraxinha.  Yeah, understandable. But it's such a fun dance. It is. It's liberating. It's good to see.

(01:10:18.242)

I'm scrolling on Facebook every now and again, just rewinding the video. Yeah, I know some of these things that they can do as well. Yeah. Dangerous. But anyway. All right. Let's talk a bit about the dance community then in terms of Kizomba. So obviously it's vibrant, it's international, it's big, it's grown. In the years I've been doing it, it just keeps growing and growing and growing. So in terms of festivals, obviously you perform at different festivals, teach at different festivals.

So what are some of the festivals that you enjoy performing at or, you know, you like to do? That's a good question. It's interesting and sad as well because a lot of the ones that were amazing pre -pandemic are not there anymore, which is a sad thing to see in the scene. And at the same time, some new ones have come as well. we're in, yeah, so it's a weird crossroad that we're in in the scene. Of the ones that are still around that people can still go to. I'd say

(01:11:26.73)

I've heard a lot about Frog coming up in February, so Kwanzaa. What else?

Paris ones. I think I will give this advice for a follower. Paris is a good place to go and dance. Are you talking about Back to Basics? Back to Basics, Mangole, Waston, Makuwa, those three top in the list at the moment for dancing in France. I think if you're a follower it is really good. Someone wants to go ahead. If you're a follower , it's great. i can talk a bit about that.

France as a colonial power, you have a lot of Africans in France, right? Who, especially like Congolese, can dance naturally. It's in their heritage. So when they come in contact with Kizomba, their skill level is just high. So I recommend it to honours in general. You're going to have the highest concentration of high -level leads in France. Yeah, in my opinion. It's in France. And if you're a leader, maybe not good.

Yeah, especially if you're still learning, you might get... Yeah, yeah, yeah. know where I'm gonna be when I go there. to Eastern Europe. I can just be the backwoods here. Yeah, avoid Poland and France. If you're an up -and -coming leader, you're not that confident, just avoid those two places. They have the highest concentration of pilot leads, from what I've seen, for festivals. And then if you're a leader, yeah, if you avoid those two, go more to Eastern Europe.

You're gonna have a great time. I usually have a great time in Toma Toma. At the moment, Kizomba Treat in Belgium Ghent is awesome. Like Romania is, this is their second edition. They've done two editions and it's been top. Yeah, Like Romania has been very, very, very, very good. Off the top of my head. What else is? Bristol, So We Kizz,  Yeah, I'd say, confidently, it's the best festival in the UK.

No bias. But enough is too good. It's just an objective opinion. Yeah. Nah, definitely. Bristol, So We Kizz is awesome. What else is tickling my fancy at the moment?

(01:13:50.274)

I mentioned Tomatoma in Bratislava Vilnius Kizomba festival in Lithuania, awesome. I'm going to their summer festival this year for the first time so hopefully it's good and I can report back.

(01:14:09.42)

There's quite a few there. Yeah. I think that that's on my list at the moment that I've been going to. And it's a mixture of having that relaxed vibe and an authentic music experience. Obviously music's, highly important to me. So common composition of DJs is something I'm looking for, you know, to know that I've got a group of musicians or music dealers that are going to give me a good session. know? Yeah.

OK, no, that's good. So definitely some on the list. There's enough there for someone to find. 100%. Yeah. You do much festivals these days? Not these days. I mean, not as much as I used to. And obviously, I'd like to do more, but it's just life, isn't it? Yeah. Things get in the way. But you're doing much this year, Doing February this year. So back to basics. All go back to basics. So I'll be in the corner watching all that.

Dance, because I'm not going to be at that level. But hey, we learn, right? Record all over here. you know what I mean? But it's all good. But all the ones you mentioned, check them out and see how we got. So cool. So then obviously you're dancing. You've mentioned lots of different places there. And I'm sure that you perform at these places as well. So who's your dance partner? And how do you select a dance partner? there's a political answer and then there's a truth.

My dance partner is Janna. Janna Kelejung. She is also my brother's wife. They were both my students at the same time. And at the same time that they were learning, I was getting a lot of requests to come and teach at festivals. And I refused a lot of them because I didn't have a dance partner. And the reason I didn't have a dance partner is not because I couldn't. It's just because I was lazy. I didn't want to travel.

I got offers from people outside the country. How are you going to practise? I'm going to have to fly over. Hell no. I don't think so. I live in Bristol. You live in London. Look, I can't do that stress. At that time, you live in where? The logistics is going to be complicated. I was like, no. And that's for like two years. just didn't have a dance partner. Janna lives in Bristol. Problem solved. Right. Yeah. OK. 

Victor (01:16:36.642)

Which is why I selected that at that time. In terms of her specifically is humility. Humility and I was lucky enough that she had some background in dancing already. In terms of conditioning the body, I didn't have to do that. Because when you want to start dancing, especially teaching, there's a conditioning you have to do for your body because the body processes information differently from the brain. So there's a conditioning you need to do to allow your body to absorb movements quickly.

She already had that, I was already in training anyway, so it was easy for us to work together and transition from student teacher to colleagues, I guess. in the official answer, for choosing a dance partner, it's technique, presence, confidence. We don't need to go there. It's all right. It was Janna you said, she's the one. All right, that's fine.

And you guys dance all over. Yeah, we've done the circle. Definitely. It's been a wild ride. Both as individuals and as a dance couple as well. It's been an interesting journey. excellent. so great. And with Kizomba then, how would you say it's impacted your life?

Kizomba exposed me more than I ever expected to more people. Yeah if you're the type of person, believe it or not, I'm an introvert.

(01:18:21.974)

And introverts naturally gravitate to meaningful conversations. We can't help it. Which means that as an introvert, you're less likely to have a wide group of friends. Like a lot of people. It's unlikely. Extroverts do that. Introverts, have one or two, three or four people, max -ish, that you really... Yeah, quality connections. Kizomba expanded that beyond what I could naturally do on my own. I wouldn't naturally connect with this many people, you know, intimately. Yeah, Kizomba facilitated that. So I find that I have a lot more connections than I would have naturally done. And it's definitely the dance. I think that's one way. I think there's something there.

Personal evolution as well. The things you could get away with when your circle is small that you can't get away with when your circle is wider. Yeah. Yeah. There's some offhand comments you can make that your close circle understands you don't mean. They know what you mean, what you're referring to. When the circle gets wider, you kind of have to refine yourself a bit more, you know, so that you can be more appealing to and not have to explain, what I really meant was...

I know you took that the wrong way, but yeah, just to clean out all of that stuff. And I went through a process of that. Actually, not everybody understands me. So you evolve in how you express yourself. think that's definitely stretched me. Definitely. It's stretched me a lot more. That's a good thing, right? Yeah. I welcomed it. It took a while. Not going to act like I knew you were an introvert, so it's going to take a while. Yeah. It sounded like you're talking from experience here.

Introverts, bald heads, hey, what can we say? Hey, that's true. Just all good, Africans. yeah, West Africa. The best side. Best side. Okay, no, no, and that's... The thing about it is, you know, I keep saying it, this dance brings you joy, it brings you people, and you just meet so many people. Yeah. It can impact yourself, so it's amazing. Yeah, 100%. I could say now that

I know people in more countries than I would have. I know people in way more countries across the spectrum as well. I've met millionaires, I've met entrepreneurs, I've met employees. The spectrum and range is so much and your appreciation for the differences of background, it just increases. Like the way I see life, society, people, expanded, it's a lot different. I'm definitely more curious as well. 

Because you just don't know exactly what you're going to meet. You speak to someone that you're meeting for the first time, you have no idea who you're speaking to. You know, it could be anything. And even there are people that have evolved over the time I've known them, know, decade is a long time. Four years, five years in, they've changed. You know, from those who've got married and left the scene, and then I meet them again, and I see how the trajectory is taking you. And those who stayed, you know, it's very full.

You never know who's in who's on that dance floor. All different walks of life. 100%. Completely different people bringing them together is the dance. Yeah. Yeah. This is great, Emmanuel, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Well, we haven't finished just yet. Just a few more things we've gotta get through. So I wanted to speak to you about, so obviously you teach in Bristol as well. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously you teach in London as well.

Now chocolate Tuesdays. And, you know, you teach alongside Shaina there, who has also been on the show as well. And, you know, I saw you at one of the events there. The dance experience. So you, are you going to be doing any more of those with her or how's that going to be developed? That's a question. Yeah. So in, in, in general, I think the preamble is…

Obviously we had a lockdown, pandemic, no one was teaching. But when we came back, I didn't go straight back to teaching. I just carried on my hiatus and enjoyed myself. And that's been good because it's been like a chance to really just reflect, okay, this is where we've come from, this is how far we've come and what does the future look like? So I think off the back of that period, a few initiatives have started this year. So I'm coming back to teaching weekly in Bristol, doing more workshops in Bristol, more parties in Bristol. And then last year, Chocolate came about because I met both Shaina and Seyi through Adda actually. 

She told me to come to Chocolate, came, had fun and met Seyi, came to Bristol afterwards, met me and he's like, you know, I want you to come and start teaching in London. And that's where we started working together with Shaina off the back of that dance experience. And we've tried it and we're like, actually, we can create something worthwhile.

For both scenes, both communities, both London and Bristol, we can try and create a connection there that is already forming, but not with the set of dancers that Chocolate is exposed to. So we normally get people coming from London to my classes and to my parties. That's been happening for years, so I'm alright with that. But it's a certain type of people. It's the people I meet at festivals. So I don't see them much in London. I see

when I travel, because I don't even go to London that often, right? So at least until now, I didn't go to London often. So I saw some people that lived in London, but I saw them at festivals. when they found out I'm teaching in Bristol, they started coming. But there's a new generation of dancers that are in chocolate now that don't have much exposure to, you know, the scene, the community and some kind of methodology of teaching, which is what we're trying to give to them early. 

You give them all the tools they need before they start travelling and start going everywhere. They've had an experience of what we think it could look like. Yeah. You know, so that's leading into, for example, we're doing private classes monthly now so that groups of people can come and we can have specific time with them. The first one is in January. And then every month the dance experience will be, I think it's two or quarter or once a quarter per member. It's about four of them this year.

I'm doing workshops in Bristol as well that I'll be teaching. there's just creating opportunities to share what we have, know, the knowledge that we've gained over the years. And then obviously building a partnership that allows us to facilitate that as well. So yeah, good stuff is coming. Yeah, no, and that's amazing. Obviously, we need that, right? We need people to keep coming, learning fundamentals. Having fun along the way, but you know. 

(01:25:19.136)

Okay, and then what about your kizomba bucket list? Is there anything that you haven't ticked off yet? Anything that you want to do in the future, plans, all that kind of stuff?

That's a good question. There's a few things that come to mind. I feel like there's some challenges I've set for myself personally in terms of my dance that I haven't quite achieved yet you know, I think  there are technical milestones that I'm like, I need to get to that stage where I can do this and execute stuff without hiccups. And there's an idea, like a level of self -expression that I'm looking for.

You know, I can't say in detail what it is yet, because like I said, I've gone through this phase of focusing on being a good dance teacher. It's different from now dancing for myself. You know, it's not so much about teaching or passing a message on to the students. It's just, this is my expression, you know, my SEMBA. I think I'm only just at that stage in the dance journey that I can really devote some time to that. I think.

That's a buck at least. What else can we think about?

(01:26:39.842)

I think there's a few people I'd like to do a video with. You mean dance choreography Video? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like the guys I mentioned from Angola, I'd like to do a video with Rekha Fania, for example. Yeah. There's a few people I'd like to definitely do a video with just because we gel on the dance floor. Yeah. I think there's something beautiful about being captured in video and being shared. I think where you can show what it looks like to be yourself in the dance I think you should show it. Okay, well, please do it. You want to see it? Yeah. Yeah, there's a future release this year. Yeah. Excellent. So keep going. Yeah. And obviously you're a teacher and it's great to have you on. So thank you for coming. We've got some people watching now. They're probably, you know, thinking, okay, you know, I want to follow in your footsteps or other people's footsteps. They want to become teachers.

What kind of advice would you give to anybody pursuing becoming a teacher? What would you say to them?

Don’t follow my path. My path is chaotic. Yeah, because I have to figure out everything myself. So definitely do Teacher training, 100%. 100 % teacher training. And you get different things from different teachers, teacher trainers. So for example, if you want to run a school, go to Afro Latin Connection. They have a beautiful understanding of the European market where in their methodology, the beginner is someone with two left feet.

(01:28:25.184)

What the other teachers don't appreciate and for caveat the other teachers are African and Black. So because we're used to a culture of dancing so you've the average beginner in their classes or no sorry the methodology that they have this is the difference the methodology that they have is catered to someone who already has groove rhythm not so much two left feet maybe one and a half so they can move, they understand some concepts that they don't have to explain. Whereas the Afro Latin connection methodology is designed for someone with two left feet, can't hear music, doesn't know anything. So it takes them from the beginning. And in reality in Europe, your students are most likely going to have two left feet, no sense of musicality, can't hear, left from right. And I think that's going to help you. 100%. 

And you add the rest. I'd say, for example, Petchu and Vanessa, their methodology is good for you to learn the culture. You get the soul of the dance from them. 100%. Methodology might not be great for teaching, but you will really absorb the soul of the dance. You will get it. You know, I put Eddie and the rest in between. get a bit of methodology and structure, you get a bit of culture. You know, that's the middle ground. But if you had to pick one, I'd say,

definitely do if you're gonna run a school. If you're just chilling and wanna dance go to Eddy. Okay, yeah, you'd be you'd be decent you'd be able to teach but we would know that this isn't what your dedicated to Yeah, it will be obvious Yeah, yeah, and then the last thing I'd say is you will know you're a good teacher by the students you create if you don't create students you're not.

You're fooling yourself. Yeah. Yeah. You might as well have a mirror and dance to yourself, teach yourself. We are going to know by your students. If I can't, if I mention your name and no one can say that's his students, that's her students, or those are her students, you're not a teacher. You're an entertainer. You're a lot of things, but you're not a teacher. You know, it's fine. We have room for everybody in the scene. Whatever you are. fine. Very, important point.

(01:30:46.882)

So hopefully, you know, some of you guys out there who want to become teachers have got some serious knowledge. Take it easy, have fun. Yep, that's the main thing. Yeah, take it easy, have fun with it all. So is there anything you want to tell us, Plug? What are you doing? Ooh, there's lots of events.  This year I've got four parties. One in February, one in April, one in June, one in September?

(01:31:17.295)

December, is it four or five or six? I take it back, six, it's every two months. So February, April, June, August, October, and December. World party in Bristol. The parties are growing because...

It's curated so that pretty much the DJs that you get at international festivals come to the UK, a little town called Bristol. And those of us that I met, I meet at those festivals that we have fun. It's kind of like our home in Bristol. That's what I'm trying to achieve. It's very relaxed, chilled. You can have a conversation with people just you connect and you get to have fun and dance as well. So the parties are growing. They're called Nui Tadamaluka. That's the party. Weekly classes, MeuSemba schools back on Thursdays in Bristol. Obviously Tuesdays at Chocolate, Kizomba in London. You'll see me there. Expanding again to the Kizomba dance experience. We've got four this year. First one is coming up in March. The private classes started in London. I do private classes in Bristol anyway, so anyone in Bristol can always reach me because it is commutable but if you're further away from London it's a good place to catch me. It's usually a Saturday, you have like four hours booked so people can come choose a slot and then internationally as well festivals for this year 2024 I confirmed for Kizomba Treat  in Ghent. I'm looking forward to that slowly growing on me as one of my favourites I can't tell say that yet because I know the organiser I like him but he's got a big head so no it's an alright festival

for now. but it's great. Like it's definitely becoming one of my favourite festivals. It's like you feel at home, you can be relaxed, you can be chilled. The music's great. Dancers are awesome. Bristol obviously, you've got to come to So We Kizz.  I'm teaching at... there's another festival, Vilnus in summer I said. That's a new one. It'll be my first time teaching there. We usually teach at the Winter Festival in November. So this year we're going to be at the Summer Festival in June.

(01:33:34.552)

I just recently booked a festival in December that I can't talk about yet. It's not official. I don't even know the name. Sounds good. Yeah, I'm curious as hell. What's it called? Yeah, hopefully I can update people on that when that time comes. I'm also bringing back the website. The MeuSemba website used to review festivals, which is fun because I almost got sued for it. wow. Yeah.

When you review festivals, you tell the truth. Okay. Gets you in trouble. We've learned our lesson. Okay. So we're trying to bring that back because I think it's probably one of the best value add we had. I did do interviews with as many teachers because by the time I was starting the website, I'd been everywhere. I've met most people. So I knew a lot of teachers and organisers, DJs that I could actually do a spotlight on each of them. So put that on the website. We want to bring that back again because there's been an influx of new dancers, new teachers in the post -pandemic that I'm like, are you? So we're first, I mean, some kind of presence again. Yeah, online. So 2024 is going to be good. Sounds packed. Sounds busy. Yeah, it is. Life's not well prepared. On top of that, But listen, Kizomba keeps you sane, right? So it's all good. Sane enough.

We're all different. anyway, so, but now listen, seriously, thank you so much for joining us. It's been an absolute pleasure learning from you. And it's been great, but just before you leave, I've got a few questions for you. Yeah, good quick fire questions. All right. Just before you leave, just before you leave, right? 

Four cards, pick three. Answer the question. Whatever's left, I'll answer. Okay? I pick three. Well, yeah, but one by one. Yeah, so pick.

Pick any one of those cards. And start with this one. Read it to us. really? And then answer the question. 

If you could invite a famous person dead or alive to dance kizomba with you, who would it be and why?

Famous. If you can't think of anybody famous then that's fine.

Wait, can you miss it? Yeah, no worries.

That's a good one. And it's got to be a follower, isn't it? Yeah, because they're dancing with me.

I don't know why, but Angelique Kidjo came to mind. Angelique Kidjo? Yeah. Talk to us about who they are. She's a famous African singer. I know the song now, but that's the first person I've popped in my head for some weird reason. So you like to dance with her? Dance with her. Yeah. Okay. I think there's a phase in my life that I grew up listening to her music and then you kind of grew out of it. Okay. And then now that you asked

That's cool. I can't explain that. So say the name one more time. Angelique Kijow. Yeah, she's a singer. She's a singer. Cool. No? Excellent. Okay. So... Caught me off guard. That's cool. That's what it's all about. The last one is one you're gonna answer. Well, yeah, whatever's left. You probably put this one down. No! So you could ask. it's another word. If you could dance Kizomba anywhere in the world. What would your dream dance location be and why?

I wanna go to Zanzibar. Zanzibar, okay, so why? Because I've never been before. It looks amazing.

It looks amazing. And it looks amazing. Yeah. It looks amazing.

(01:37:48.299)

If kizomba were a flavour, what would it taste like? If kizomba was a flavour.

I'm not gonna say Jollof rice, They're expecting us. Yeah, I'm not right. I'm not gonna fall into this stereotype.

Damn it. Flavour. Sweet, sour, sweet, or... You know?

Mmm, I wanna say...

I want to say sweet with a hint of spicy. Okay. That hint of spice is strong when it hits though. Okay, but what is it? I dashed wrong, to fit that category.

like wait wait I'm almost there almost got it

(01:39:08.39)

Nigerian plantain Yeah, right. Nigerian plantain versus Ghanaian plantain. We're not doing this now. But, okay. We don't do it ever. We're taking that. There's nothing to do. We already know. We already know. We said we wouldn't do this. 

Okay. Which do you find more challenging in Kizomba? Footwork? Connection with the partner or musicality?

Good question, Victor. Please answer it. So you noticed earlier on I was drilling in about your instruments and the fact that you're talented in that and we were talking about musicality. So for me, you know, what I will struggle mostly with is musicality because like I, well, I think I told you before that, you know, I came from salsa  and in Kizomba it teaches you to

listen to the beat. Yeah. But, you know, we were talking about dancing with so many things in our minds, we could get off beat. 

So I struggle with that a lot and a hell of a lot. And I think a good way is just getting around that, listening to the song just over and over again, so you know when the pauses are coming, that kind of stuff. But, you know, if there's a song that comes on you, you think, this is great, but you have a partner in front of you and you haven't, you don't know it, I'm all over the place.

So musicality is something that I struggle with. Well, out of those three anyway. Yeah, I think it's a good problem. It's a good problem? Yeah, it's a good problem. Usually you have this, when you get to this crossroad after you've gone through a phase in your dance, a good long enough phase in your dance journey that, okay, you're not worried so much about the basics and the steps anymore. Now you're thinking, okay, I do actually enjoy music. Yeah, it's a good problem. I like it. What would have been yours? Just as an ad of interest.

It's your question. That's what I usually say, but you are right. How's that your right. Emmanuel, seriously man, it's been great. Thank you man. Thanks for joining us and we wish you well in the future. Everything that you're doing, going on into the future. And hopefully we can maybe catch up with you at some point in the future for you to come back and do another episode. Give us an update on what's happening. I hope so.

(01:41:37.112)

General commentary on the scene as well. I've been here long enough to give some kind of insight so I think that'll be good. Yeah, thank you for having me. This was a lot more relaxed than I thought it would be. We make it relaxed? 

The whole point is to spread the joy of Kizomba to as many people as we can reach. That's the purpose of this channel. Alright, so everybody watching, thank you very much. I want to say thank you again to Emmanuel. Thank you all for staying with us another time for another episode.

But we're going to be signing out now. As we always say, keep dancing and we will see you on the dance floor. Peace.