Episode #17 : In conversation with Kizomba Teachers Carlos Camba & Anna Mariaz

TAKEAWAYS

• Carlos has lived in Finland for over 10 years.

• Anna's background includes solo dancing before Kizomba.

• The music is a key factor in attracting dancers to Kizomba.

• Carlos emphasizes the importance of learning from various teachers.

• Anna highlights the unpredictability of dancing in Angola.

• Both Carlos and Anna stress the importance of solid fundamentals in teaching.

• Kizomba's popularity is welcomed by Angolans, who feel pride in sharing their culture.

• Semba and Kizomba share similarities but have distinct energies.

• Energy in dance is more important than strict genre definitions.

• Leaders must communicate effectively through their movements.  The right hand is crucial in leading during dance.

• Mistakes should not hinder a dancer's confidence.

• Maintaining a light frame is essential for followers.

• Kizomba festivals offer rich cultural experiences.

• The evolution of Kizomba happens primarily in Angola.

• First-time attendees should keep an open mind.

• Kizomba is a dance that continues to grow and evolve.

• Dancing with different partners enhances the experience.

• Teaching and dancing can be life-changing for participants.

• The goal is to make Kizomba more widely recognized and appreciated. Those who hesitate often have the right mindset.

• Seek knowledge from various teachers.

• It's okay to admit when you don't know something.

• Trust yourself in your journey as a teacher.

• The best teacher is often just one step ahead.

• Community support is vital for growth.

• Cultural experiences can change your life.

• Mistakes are part of the learning process.

• Music is a powerful motivator in dance.

• Engagement in the community is essential for the dance culture.

SOUNDBITES

• "I immediately fell in love with the music"

• "You need to be more assertive"

• "You just need to relax"

• "You should concentrate on the energy"

• "Don't be afraid of making mistakes."

• "We concentrate on the dancing part."

• "Come with an open mind."

• "You come back a better dancer."

• "Kizomba is evolving every day."

• "It's a life-changing trip."

• "Dancing together is magical."

• "We want to spread Kizomba more."

• "Just start, you just have to start."

• "There's no shame in making mistakes."

• "You need to trust yourself."

• "Act fast, don't think about it too much."

• "You change your life after the trip."

• "The music keeps us coming back."

• "It's just for the love of it."

TRANSCRIPT

Victor (00:04)

Hello, Kizomba friends and welcome back to another episode of Kizomba Conversations. As always, I'm your host, Victor. And today we are back with some super guests joining us in the studio. We have the wonderful, dynamic dance couple, Carlos and Anna joining us today. Hello, Carlos. Hello, Anna. How are you both?

C&A (00:24)

Hey. Hello. We are fine. How are you? Yeah.

Victor (00:28)

I am very well super excited to see you and have you on the podcast and looking forward to the conversation.

C&A (00:32)

Thank you for inviting.

Yes, thank you for inviting us. We're happy to be here.

Victor (00:38)

No worries. So no, absolutely. Great. So you guys are in Finland, is that correct?

C&A (00:44)

Yes.

For once.

Victor (00:46)

For once,

exactly, because you're always traveling and we're going to be getting into that as well. So once you're at home. Fantastic. So, all right. So we're here to talk about Kizomba, here to talk about you and spread the joy of Kizomba to as many people as we can. And we really want to hear about your story. So before we get into Kizomba though, obviously as we do on our podcast, we want to find out just a bit about who you are before Kizomba, if you can tell us that. So going to introduce you both to us. So.

C&A (00:49)

Yeah. Yes.

Victor (01:14)

I'm gonna start with Carlos if that's okay. I know it's usually ladies first, but we'll mix it up today. So Carlos, tell us, tell us the people listening, people watching, who is Carlos? Bit of background.

C&A (01:25)

Yeah, good evening again, one more time. My name is Carlos, like you guys know already, that's Carlos. We call that Carlos Camba, like my artist name. Carlos, original from Angola, live in Finland more than 10 years. I didn't say the exact number how long I live in Finland, but just more than 10 years. Yeah, so all my life I was in Angola, one of the most popular.

Part in Angola, in Luanda. So it's calling I born in Sambizanga But I grew up in Brenda Those who know Angola don't mess with Carlos. Yeah, he's from Sambizanga. Yeah And then I go up in Brenda I think that comes from Brenda. Yeah, it's my house so then you know

Victor (02:13)

it's like that, okay, it's like that.

C&A (02:24)

I was studying in Angola when I was younger. So then I moved to Finland, just continue my life in Finland. So now I'm still here in Finland. I have almost my half life in Finland, half life in Angola. Like, know, I'm both now Angola and Finnish. I know how to be Angolan. I know how to be from Finland.

Victor (02:52)

So you can switch it up, you can switch it up. So you are from the birthplace of Kizomba, Carlos, and we're gonna talk about that in more depth, definitely, definitely. But how often do you go back to Angola?

C&A (02:54)

Exactly.

Yeah.

Actually I go to Angola waistline two. So if I get chance to go three times in a year, I go three. But normally I go two times. A year? Every year. A year.

Victor (03:17)

two times.

Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. Okay. So you're connected there. All right. Fantastic. Thank you, Carlos. So over to the lovely Anna. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

C&A (03:29)

Yeah,

so I'm Anna. I'm Finnish, but actually I am half Italian, so my dad is Italian, my mom is Finnish, but I always lived in Finland, so I, if I have to say one country, I will say I'm from Finland. Yeah, I'm from a very, what is it, boring neighbourhood, nothing going on. So like very different from Carlos.

Victor (03:46)

from Finland,

Okay.

C&A (03:59)

Yeah, but yeah, before Kizomba I used to dance solo dances and then I migrated to Kizomba, so that's about it.

Victor (04:00)

Very different.

Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, you're boring town. You've escaped that and you're all around the world. Not boring anymore. So.

C&A (04:14)

Well, no, I'm actually from the

capital city in Finland, so nothing special, yeah.

Victor (04:22)

Okay. Okay. No, fantastic.

And great. Listen, great to hear that background. just Anna, so you you come into Kizomba when 2017, is that correct? Roughly around that time?

C&A (04:32)

Yes,

2017, yeah.

Victor (04:36)

Yeah, so what was it about Kizomba that captivated you then? What got you?

C&A (04:39)

the

music. I had never heard the word Kizomba before. I went to try Salsa and it didn't really like connect the music. I wasn't really feeling it. So then I just saw on the schedule, I saw Kizomba. was like, okay, what is that? And when I walked in and I heard the music, was lucky to go, mean, well lucky for me to go to like a real Kizomba class, not like

fusion or you know something else so I immediately fell in love with the music and I was like okay because I really need the music to be able to dance to that so that's what kept me there.

Victor (05:25)

So always the music, isn't it? It just hits you, hits you like a train and then you get on it and you don't really stop or come off, but 100 % I'm certainly with you. And Carlos, obviously Kizomba in Angola is in the roots, it's there. So how was it growing up with Kizomba from then to now? How has it been for you?

C&A (05:30)

Exactly.

Victor (05:53)

Okay.

C&A (06:06)

professional, not sincere, like most Angola, Angola they dance, just like family dance. Of course, but then when I was in Finland, when I was moved to Finland, I was just living here and then I get people invited to, someone was invited me to go to the class, and then the same person, that's one lady from Finland, that's what the lady was.

Victor (06:13)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

C&A (06:33)

pushed me to go to Kizomba. Actually it was fun things that I'm in Angola, but who was pushed me to go to Kizomba and then I start like working in Kizomba was one lady from Finland and then you know from there I was continue all the life in Kizomba. I decided to go to Angola and take all the classes in Angola, take many different courses with different teachers.

Then I just was starting to improve my, all the information about my dance and everything. I would just get from Angola, during the time I was all the time going to Angola and try to learn something from there. Until now, until now to be honest. Yeah.

Victor (07:20)

Okay.

Yeah.

So you had a lot of teaching then in Angola from a lot of different teachers. Yeah. All right. So I mean, I probably won't know any of the names that you got taught from, but who were some of the people that you got taught from and what did they teach you to be to where you are now? Because obviously you're a great dancer now.

C&A (07:27)

Exactly, yeah.

Yeah,

actually, it's good that I used to say, I like to say the people name that because it's that people who, like I say, it's they are part of my journey yet. So the first I would like to say the lady who was pushed me to go to get on by one lady from Finland, Finnish lady. She's the name is she's her name is a Kirsi.

That was the first person who pushed me to go to Kizomba and then to start working on Kizomba. Teaching. And this was the first person. So the second one was, I think, one of the more popular in Angola, also here in Europe. One guy was both here, like both. He was, sorry, he was one of the first winner in Angola. He called us Dilson Rosario.

Some people call it the osapigamba and then he was my first first I say the first one teachers in Angola was him Yeah, then I was taught have a class with many different teachers in Angola like I can say that it's like I remember well it was One guy I love so much. It's called sales sales on sales on the elevator Actually, don't ask anymore and then I had

Victor (08:44)

Okay.

C&A (09:03)

Ti-Bo Bo, I had who, I had many, just these three, there was that guys that was working more with me. The foundation. Yeah, know, a lot, we worked like a lot together. Of course, but then I had a class with men different, each like private class, you know, just to improve a little bit more. And then I say, when I was in Angola, this time I was trying to learn more Kizomba.

You know, my life was only going to the class morning and then I go into the class. On the like night time, you know, two times a day, like, you know, training like crazy. Like if you got if you guys see me one day, I just I just want one day I'm going to post my video like old video like I was dancing. He's on. But like from 2000, I think.

16 or 17? Ben. It's not the same person. Yeah. Yeah. I like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Victor (10:09)

You've evolved, right? Changed. Yeah.

But the thing is, you know, that's what it's about, right? It's about that kind of practice. And I'm sure you practice the foundations to, you know, so many times to get to where you are. We always talk about the foundations and stuff. And some of the people that you've mentioned, you know, I don't know, know their names. I'm sure some of the people listening won't know their names, but are they still teaching now? And, you know, do you go back to them? Do you see them?

C&A (10:35)

Yes, they still some of them one is still teaching now, but here in Europe now It's a deal son. Do some content here in Europe at least but the guys in Angola I say that people bow and deal and sell some deliver and not that's true. It's you guys. No, no, they're don't eat anymore. Yes people bow sometimes doing dance that you have a like different job now they are different way

But nowadays, if we go to Angola, we take privates with, you know, everyone from grandpa to young boys, you know, like we want to have different styles and different, you know, exposure to different type of stuff. there are, just, I would say just three person that I would say that from Angola and then I would say this lady is from Finland, but they have more people as they mentioned here.

Victor (11:24)

Yeah.

C&A (11:35)

the conversation but I have a lot of people who were involved in my Kizomba life life from the beginning.

Victor (11:45)

And that's great to hear. And it's great to hear that you go back and you still learn from other people or these different people because it's all about learning, isn't it? Yeah.

C&A (11:49)

Of course, as a teacher especially, you have to

keep learning all the time. You cannot just think that you're ready and you don't have to learn anything anymore.

Victor (11:59)

Yeah, no, I love it. That's music to my ears, you know, keep, going. So

that's really, really great and really interesting.

C&A (12:04)

But you know, I used

to say some of my teacher, now, hey guys, you guys, know, you guys, are all my teachers many years ago, but sorry to say that, but now I am better than everyone of you guys. yeah. Yes, I told them that. You know, guys, I'm better than everyone that you guys teach me that, please, don't play with me anymore, you know? If you want to get...

Victor (12:20)

So you're better than everybody that taught you,

Wow.

C&A (12:32)

I can give to you now. So then you don't need to pay. It's free. Of course I pay for you to give to me. But now I'm a different person now. you I like to work hard. If I concentrate something, if I say that I'm going to do it, I will just concentrate on the things and I try to do always my best.

Victor (12:45)

Wow.

Well, that's the only way to success, isn't it? You have to keep putting in the hours and all that. look, Carlos, you know, I'm not going to argue with you on that. I believe you when you say that, right?

C&A (13:05)

But it will

be just joking. They know that I'm joking. I'm joking.

Victor (13:10)

They don't know it's coming. So, however, I do want to say that,

you know, I think I think maybe you've had this conversation before, but I mentioned to you that there was one lady over here who actually is a teacher and she actually was our first episode of our Kizomba Conversations. She's called Shaina Kalila. And, you know, she mentioned you as a great dancer. She said she saw you at a festival and, you know, she's a teacher, but she saw you at a festival. You danced with her and she said, you know, she came away. said she was

educated, you know, she got a lot to learn. So I think what you're saying is completely correct.

C&A (13:47)

I think that's a great way to see it because sometimes people get discouraged. They're like, Anna, how can you dance with Carlos? I felt it was so difficult for me. But then when you take it this way that, I felt that it was difficult, it means that I need to learn more. I think that's like a better attitude than thinking that, it was too hard for me or something.

It means that you have, you know, more things to look forward to and more things to work on. I think it's a positive thing.

Victor (14:19)

Absolutely. So Carlos you asked so if you watch episode one, you will see her Shaina Kalila is her name. All right, but yeah, she's very Yeah, absolutely so Shaina Kalila

C&A (14:24)

Okay. Maybe we know her face, but don't remember her name. can check her from

this podcast, Yeah.

Victor (14:38)

Yeah,

absolutely, absolutely. You naughty people, you haven't watched episode one, I'm joking. I'm joking. So Anna, how about you? How about you, Anna? How was your teaching, know, evolution? Where did that start?

C&A (14:43)

Sorry. Sorry.

Yeah,

like I said, I just stumbled upon Kizomba, not looking for it. And I actually, like after maybe six months of learning, I met Carlos and then I started learning from him. So I got like straight, to the source. And then already like within one year from starting, I went to Angola for the first time.

And that's the real like, the real test. Cause you think like, you know, when you start the evolution is like, I know something already. But then I went to Angola and I was like, okay, I know nothing. Like absolutely nothing. Cause like everybody has a different style. Like everybody's dancing Kizomba, but everyone has their unique style.

Victor (15:32)

Yes.

C&A (15:46)

their own interpretation, their own musicality, their own creativity. And that is something like very unpredictable in Angola. In Europe, it's more uniform. But in Angola, it's like very unpredictable. Like you never know what's coming when you dance with someone. So that was really like the... I had a good foundation and then that was really like, okay, this is where it actually only just starts from.

So then I kept going back. I also go twice a year now. I've been 10 times already. So it's a lot of learning every time I go.

Victor (16:16)

Yeah.

Wow.

So for somebody who hasn't been to Angola and you know they've been dancing over in Europe for a number of times, well for many years or so, then they're go to Angola, they're gonna dance with people. What's the main difference and you know how should they approach it?

C&A (16:30)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

the predictability, actually, I would say. Because in Europe, you know more or less what you're getting. But like I said, in Angola, some of the moves that the leaders do, you've never seen it before because they just come up with that stuff. They breathe it, they eat it, they live it 24-7. So the creativity is on another level.

I feel like in Europe maybe people are a little bit afraid of or maybe we're not on that level to get to the creativity yet because you have to first know the rules to be able to break the rules, you know?

Victor (17:25)

Yeah. So if I'm going to Angola, should I be scared?

C&A (17:29)

No, you should be excited. You should be excited. And you're a leader, so you're the one who decides what you're going to do. So it's a little bit different scenario for leaders and for followers. Yeah.

Victor (17:32)

Okay, should be exciting. All right. Okay, cool. I'll try to get over my fear. Absolutely.

Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, we try, we try. Okay.

So I think you said it, but I'm just very interested in how you both met. So how you both met and decided to become dance partners. What's the story behind that?

C&A (18:01)

Yeah,

we actually met in Kizomba. Someone from Angola was performing like a singer or something. There was a party and we met there and then I went to Carlos's classes. so at that time, Carlos had another partner, this lady who invited him to start teaching Kizomba in Finland. But then she moved to Portugal. So then there was kind of like this void.

Victor (18:05)

Mm-hmm.

C&A (18:30)

So Carlos didn't have a partner anymore and he had a booking. So then I kind of stepped up and, you know, just took the spot and went by force. You can see how excited Carlos is about that.

Victor (18:43)

Okay. Well...

Well, Carlos, what was it about Anna? because you know, you you can't just, well, excuse me if I'm wrong, but you can't just choose anybody, right? So what was it about Anna that you say, okay, right, yep, she's ready. What does she have?

C&A (19:00)

Actually

it was because the first, when she want to jump to the class, she was having class with me. I mean, she was going to the class. I was teaching this time alone. And for some point I was having booking like somewhere and then she was on the same festival on that time.

She was and then one couple of months but first one was in Finland. that just the performance thing. That was actually the first one. Yeah, that was the first one. But I mean, just consider more that the one what we were doing. We was in Holland and then I was having, was needing someone to, you know, to prepare the class and then to do everything, you know, and actually just ask straight away to Anna that can we do together?

and then we were preparing the class and that was okay. That was good, but was okay. just said it was okay. And then from there, we were keeping going, doing more and more more. Now we are here. We are already now six years. I have to say that I was not ready back then, but you have to start somewhere.

You don't always, like if you always wait until you're ready, you're never gonna start. yeah, so if you look at me now how I teach and back then, back then I wasn't really teaching. Back then I was just someone that Carlos shows with. But now, like nowadays I actually teach and I actually have input in the knowledge and you know, so that's the growth as well. But I like her more like when she didn't know well before than right now.

Victor (20:50)

Yeah.

C&A (20:56)

Because

Victor (21:10)

Talking too much, huh?

No, but you both make it really, really, so that when I see you on Instagram or on YouTube do it dancing, really, really nice. And it's gonna be great for people, I think, to learn from you. And Anna, it's great to see someone who's humble, to say that they weren't ready, and someone saying that this teacher, when they come away from Carlos, that's how they should be thinking. That's the kind of mindset for growth. And I like that, so that's amazing, that's fantastic. So in terms of your dancing, teaching and philosophy,

C&A (21:24)

Thank you.

Victor (21:47)

both of you together, when people come to you and they learn from you, what's your philosophy? What are you trying to convey to them when you're teaching?

C&A (21:57)

Well, solid fundamentals. I like to rather call it fundamentals than basics because basics seems like you just stay on basics and you never evolve. So solid fundamentals and then little by little adding creativity. So style and creativity is something that we really want to emphasize. And then I used to say to people that reminded that we are all the same.

We are all the same. Sometimes people say that, no, I need more time to learn this. This is difficult. No, can't. So when you start straight away say that this is difficult, you put in your mind that it's difficult and you cannot do it. So if you look at Carlos or whatever, someone at the one and say, okay, if the guy can do it, so of course I can do also, then it's going to be more easy to you to do it.

You know, just need to be more positive. Sometimes I feel that the guys, they are not positive. You know, they, they, they don't see that I do one step, I show one step, then no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Victor (23:20)

Amen.

C&A (23:24)

And then I learned something like people assertiveness assertiveness, yes a new word that here he learned This is the most I like to say now in English that when I talk someone that in the class Hey guys, you need to be more assertive. You need to be more assertive. Yeah. Yeah

Victor (23:47)

Yeah, so that's linked to confidence, isn't it? Being assertive, confidence, and just have your presence and believe in yourself, isn't it? I think that, so what you're saying, Carlos, I I fall victim to that. Sometimes I look at, go to classes and I think that, my God, you know, I can't do this. You know, I'm going to be the slowest one in class and that, but I guess it's just trying to get past that and practice and just be assertive, like you say. So yeah, 100%.

C&A (23:52)

Exactly.

.

And one good thing is that I used

to say those other people that remember that remember that you are the one pay for the class and This is just hobby like, know, you do it like Relax, you just do something like fun. Just relax You don't need to stress like someone working the only one working here It's me Carlos and Anna we need to stress if something doesn't go well, and you just need to relax you do it

Don't need to concentrate a lot. You'll see that gonna be more easy for you. But it's difficult, of course, sometimes.

Victor (24:46)

Yeah, it is sometimes, but basically what you're saying is true and yeah, you're totally right. So I'm going to have that mindset more and then, and then I'm going to get so good. I'm going to be better than Carlos in my dreams, but I'll try it. Okay, cool. So Anna, you danced other dances before Kizomba. So what

C&A (24:57)

That's the goal.

Victor (25:13)

What is it about Kizomba you think is so different to the... Basically, what captivates you about Kizomba compared to the other dances? What makes it different to you, do you think?

C&A (25:22)

Well,

actually, I had never danced couple dances before. I had only done solo dances. So that's why I wanted to try something different and I wanted to try couple dances. And it's just, you know, nothing. It was just the music. Like I said before, it was just the music that caught me because I really need that connection from the music. I cannot dance to something that I don't feel like if I don't feel the music. So it was just that basically. And I have to say.

that in Salsa for example it was just so much spinning for me that I felt I had like a crisis I was like I thought I'm a good dancer and I learned fast but I feel like I'm gonna fall like this spinning is not like yeah yeah I feel I felt dizzy and then in Kizomba I didn't have to do that so it was like okay this is more pleasant for me yeah

Victor (26:04)

It is a

Yeah, okay. Yeah, definitely, definitely not as much spinning in Kizomba. So a hundred percent.

Okay, cool. Cool. So Carlos, question for you then. obviously Kizomba is Angolan. We all know that. So I want to find out, and you've said that you go back quite often. So, you know, Kizomba is just blown up. It's just got big and big and it keeps getting big. So how do Angolans feel about

this change or this rise in popularity of their dance and how they feeling about it and how they thinking, know, how they seeing it change, you know, what are their thoughts?

C&A (26:56)

The one I know that every Angola, they are so happy when see people dancing Kizomba. I don't know if they have any Angolan. I don't know. Probably they have some of, they think raise people and that they don't like to see when people dancing Kizomba with love. And then also we can prove that. like people, like, I mean, Turkish people, when they go to Angola, they are

very welcome to any Angolan that they see people, when they see that European people dance as Kizomba in Angola, everyone looks like, so beautiful. And they give you like motivation. I think in Angola, people give you more motivation than in Europe. If you just compare that Europe and Angola, so when you are here, people, don't give you a motivation the same way like when you go to Angola.

So I can just say that we are so happy to see that everyone is very interested.

Victor (28:03)

That's really great. that's great. So there's no like negativity or anything about it at all that you see.

C&A (28:09)

at all. And

also, of course, like I said, probably they have people that little bit jealous. like that's a normal. I've never seen that. Like I said, probably they could be happy with someone, but for no reason, you know, and then, you know, but to be honest, if you put like 20 people, I think 19, will say, yes, we are so happy to see that everyone is more interested. Nothing is wrong. and then

We are so happy to see that people, are so interested to visit Angola to know a little bit more about Kizomba. That's the one thing that we can just be happy.

Victor (28:50)

Yeah,

no, that's great. That's great to hear because it's, well, I love it. know, so many people love it. And like I said, we want to spread it to as many people as we can. what about, okay, you can't have Kizomba without Kizomba. So I'm not going to ask you which you prefer, but you know, can you tell us about how, well, how important Kizomba is and the link between Kizomba and Kizomba Carlos So you able to explain to us that?

C&A (29:05)

You

I think I can say in my opinion that honestly that Kizomba now it's becoming more commercial you know like commercial like things that in Angola people or outside from Angola like as Angolan I mean I think people feeling more in love with Kizomba you know like from the heart like if you feel like okay this is our it's Kizomba

my opinion. Probably someone can have a different opinion about that. So Kizomba, I think it's more that people feeling that because they see that everyone now is impressed about the Kizomba, then they want to show it. Hey, I'm from Angola. You know, this is Kizomba, I'm from Angola. But if you ask him like straight away, hey, come on, tell me the truth, which one you love more. They will say probably Kizomba. But when I mean Kizomba, I mean Kizomba, the music.

Victor (29:49)

Yeah.

C&A (30:19)

like in not just the Semba, the crazy thing that we see that sometimes people doing like crazy stuff when they dance Semba. mean the music. Semba. many times we have a many music, Semba music that we don't understand like myself also, but we feeling this music like we understand a hundred percent. Like also she have a story about one Semba music and then she loves so much the music.

But one day she figured out that everything the music was saying... And it was just talking about someone getting killed very violently and something and I've been super happy to that song. But it's the music, it's just the music, what the Semba music brings, you know? I don't know, but Semba is different thing. Semba just makes like loving...

Victor (31:00)

Okay. Okay, to pass through. Okay, right. It's okay. Okay.

C&A (31:18)

I can feel it as a follower actually. When I dance with Angolans, when a certain type of Kizomba song, and like he said, I don't mean the crazy ones, but I mean like those more sentimental type of Kizomba songs, I can feel their dance change. It's like all the musicality comes out and somehow like the feeling just the whole energy changes. can actually, and it's something that even if you don't know that this is an Angolan that you're dancing with,

Sometimes some small shift like that, can be like, you're on goal and because you felt this same song like that. Yeah.

Victor (31:56)

Wow, wow. Yeah. Okay. No. Okay. Interesting. if you were to, so if somebody doesn't know the difference, so I'm sure we'd be people listening or watching that don't know the difference between Kizomba and Kizomba. Are you able just to articulate what the difference is? If there is any.

C&A (32:14)

You mean in the dance or in the music? In the dance. Well, more than concentrating on genres, you should concentrate on the energy. Because there are slow Kizomba songs that are slower than some Kizomba songs. A Kizomba song can be more energetic and faster than a Kizomba song. Or the other way around. So it's not always, people always think Kizomba is fast and more energetic, but that's not always the truth.

Victor (32:16)

Yeah, in the dance.

C&A (32:44)

And also because music is not like this is Kizomba and this is Semba and there's a wall between it. It's art. there is also fusion inside of it and sometimes elements from Kizomba or from Semba can be implemented or some other dance can be implemented in the music. So that also affects the way that you're dancing. So it's not like...

a strict wall or a strict line written in the sand. It's more...

Victor (33:22)

Yep, Yeah, yeah, it kind of blends, right? So, OK.

C&A (33:24)

So I think energy is my answer

is energy. Like you just you have to change your energy when you dance based on what type of song it is rather than which genre it is.

Victor (33:38)

Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. Totally makes sense. yes, Carlos, what do you say?

C&A (33:40)

Carlos, what do you say?

You're speechless. No, it's not true. The energy is something that's clear. I think it's the number one thing. The energy changes as complete. If you dance to Kizomba music, of course, we know that Kizomba music, we have both.

Victor (33:51)

Thanks.

No? Nothing to say there?

C&A (34:18)

A little bit more fast Kizomba music and a little bit more slow. But we have a more slow Kizomba music than Kizomba. also, from there you can see sometimes it's easy, like my opinion, that it's easy to see that, okay, now it's Kizomba music, it's coming, you know, that the energy comes a little bit more, more like down. you know, it's more the energy that I can say.

Victor (34:50)

And would you agree, because obviously Carlos, you're born in Angola, this is your dance, so would you agree that Kizomba and Kizomba, when they're danced, they are the same steps? Or would you not agree with that?

C&A (35:07)

I agree. Of course, is something like you don't do basic one in Kizomba, but other than that, yeah, same, same, same stuff, different energy, different attitude. I agree. And then I would say also again, like I say, if one day everyone will sit on the table, like everyone on this world, then we'll say, hey guys, let's stop keeping call to Kizomba, let's call it Semba because it's the same, you know, but,

Victor (35:09)

You agree. Okay.

C&A (35:36)

But know, commerce is commerce. like, you know, if you see that sometimes also the music, if they have a lot of music, think that it's a Kizomba music. And then you say that it's a Kizomba, Kizomba. Then you go to ask for the guy who makes the music. say, no, that's what's Semba Kizomba music. The same thing that we are thinking, this is a Semba music, Semba music. Then you go to the guy ask, hey.

What is music? They say that no, no, no, no, this is piece of music. You know, this happened many times. But you don't change your steps because of that. Exactly. And also that as like, let's say as dancer, also like a professional dancer, we, know, anyway.

Victor (36:16)

Yeah. No.

It's cool. I was listening. Yeah But I get it.

So just want to let tell you something So we we did a workshop why I attended a workshop with some friends some time ago and we were doing this thing where we we had different Stations so what I mean by that is the DJ will play a song and the idea was you go to the station in terms of what you think that song is so is this Semba is this Kizomba? yeah, so they played the song you have to rush over you had to rush over to which one you thought and It was tough

C&A (36:51)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Victor (37:00)

you know, people couldn't always get the clear Kizomba or the Semba. But so it's just interesting listening to what you're saying. And I think now that you kind of mentioned about the energy you can, and obviously there's instruments and there's all this other stuff, but just interesting to find out. So thank you for.

C&A (37:15)

But sometimes even the person

who made the music doesn't know. Sometimes they're like, well, I mixed a little bit of data and a little bit of that. So it's not like I said, it's not like boxes that you have to fit in.

Victor (37:20)

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that's great. It comes back to feeling, doesn't it? So yeah, just feel the music as we always say. So, okay, cool. And I always like to ask this question to teachers because obviously dancing, have a leader and you have a follower. So I just wanted to get your opinions or your thoughts or your advice on these two elements. So Carlos, could you give us some...

C&A (37:29)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Victor (37:55)

tips, advice for people who want to become better leaders. Please.

C&A (38:03)

Go to the Carlos class.

That's one example. And then, yeah, and then he could get more private class with Carlos. And yeah. And I'm... All right.

Victor (38:06)

That's it,

Just come to you to be the master.

Okay, all right, that's it.

Okay,

what about about technicality parts anything you can give us from around tech tech.

C&A (38:34)

Exactly, exactly. Now we go

to the technical part. actually we say that, Kizomba and Semba we use everything like the right hand. It's not showing. right hand. Leading everything that, I can say that we can dance without our left hand, but we cannot dance without.

Victor (38:51)

Okay, I can see it. Yeah. Yeah, right hand.

C&A (39:04)

right hand. If we want leading, if we want that our partner or whatever the person that you are dancing understands everything that you are trying to do, you need your right hand. And this is the thing that we know that sometimes we have people who are afraid to use their right hand to leading or you know to

do all the movements with the hand because the leading comes from this hand. If you don't use the right hand to lead the follower, she will never understand. She will always going to stop. You're going to try to do something, then she will stop. So then you guys cannot dance and you guys going to fight on the dance floor. You try to do something, then she'll say that, no, I don't get what you're trying to do. Then you say that, no, I did well, but of course, you know, it's communicate.

We can dance like in 20 minutes without talking anything but our communication can come from the right hand because I will give all the information from my right hand.

Victor (40:19)

Okay, so the right hand controls everything basically in the dance. Yeah. Okay, no, great. And again, some people may know this, some people may not know this, but it's great just to educate them. So even if they don't understand that, they're coming away with something that they can start to practice. So, no, thank you, thank you. And obviously, yes, your privates as well, yes, as well.

C&A (40:23)

Exactly.

But you know, but no,

that is a funny thing that's like, world like, you know, people always try to change everything that I will say that right hand, right hand, but can be positive someone come in and comment, say, no, also my left hand. I didn't say that left hand you cannot use it. I mean that the right hand.

Is the number one. Of course, in Angola there's this guy who dances with... What are those... When you break your leg and you need those two things in your armpit... What are they called? Crutches, yeah. So he has one leg and he uses crutches and he dances. So he doesn't even use the hand. But when we're teaching people, that's what we say that is the most important thing in the leading.

Victor (41:14)

crutches crutches yeah

Okay.

C&A (41:32)

I need to say the name of this guy. He is my friend. I don't say just the name because he is my friend. If you guys go into my Instagram, you can see in my Instagram, there is a video of him. I have a true video of him. is the guy called Gato Viola. But this guy, Gato Viola.

Victor (41:33)

Yeah.

Say it one more time a bit louder please Carlos, you're a bit low. Say it one more time.

C&A (41:59)

Yeah, got Viola. Yeah, he's Gato Viola. So this guy is amazing that you guys, if you guys go into my Instagram, you will see the you find just the name Gato Viola. You will see that I have a three video, think three or two video from him in my Instagram is amazing. Amazing. Amazing.

Victor (41:59)

Okay.

Okay, so we.

Okay, we will check him out. We will check him out. So thank you, Carlos

left, sorry, right hand.

C&A (42:30)

Right in the left. Right in the left. Right hand. Right hand.

Victor (42:31)

So...

Exactly. So Anna, advice then please for followers.

C&A (42:40)

I should have thought about this when you were talking about the leader. Well, this is going to be boring, but I'm going to just say if we have to name just one thing, it's about the stopping. like you just have to keep going because if you keep stopping, if you're insecure. So, okay, don't be afraid of making mistakes because when you're afraid of making mistakes, is what makes you hesitate. And that is what makes you heavy as a follower.

Victor (42:45)

No worries.

C&A (43:10)

So when you're not afraid of making mistakes and you're not hesitating, that means you're just walking freely and that makes you a light follower. Because the leader doesn't need to use force to make you move. So yeah.

Victor (43:26)

So when you say stopping, because obviously the leader's in charge and they're moving you, but so you mean if the follower just stops by themselves, is that what you mean? Not having confidence,

C&A (43:33)

I mean, when you're like,

let's say you're walking just normally in the street, but you're all the time hesitating to take the next step. Like you're not walking freely. there's a little bit of like hesitation and you're stopping before you take your next step. That's what I mean. Cause that the leader can feel it. And then they need to like pull you with force to make you walk smoothly. know? It's happened many times that if I dance with someone, if she doesn't get the step.

Victor (43:42)

Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

C&A (44:02)

then she will stop. Like, you know, she's like, what was I supposed to do? But don't worry about what you were supposed to do because it's social dance. It's not supposed to be perfect. So it doesn't matter if you make mistakes and making one mistake is one second. But if you're hesitating, you're going to be heavy for the whole four or five minutes that the song is. But when you make one mistake, that's one second. So, you know, it doesn't matter. But don't make too much mistakes.

And then there was sometimes like people when they dance that keep it work like if we walk then it should stop and for some time they follow stop like and stop and look at your face. Hey, what was it? You know, like it's like kill all the dance because if you just keep going like, you know, if you get some mistake and then if you don't stop then you give me a chance.

Victor (44:41)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

C&A (44:56)

to try to do again or do something different. But if you stop, you force me also to stop, then we stop altogether. We stop again, we stop, and then we continue again from the beginning. So it kills the flow and it just like kills the dance.

Victor (45:13)

Yeah, no, okay. Listen, great, great knowledge. And just one more question for you, Anna, it's because I hear this before, it's about being light. And, you know, some of the followers or the ladies need to be light. So how, what can you say to them to make them or get them to be a little bit lighter?

C&A (45:15)

No.

Well, it's

the thing that you keep stepping, you're not hesitating. But also pay attention to your frame, because we always talk about the leader's frame, but followers also, you can make yourself heavy by, for example, resting your arms on the leader. Like you're supposed to carry yourself and keep your own posture. You're not supposed to like, you know, like be heavy on the leader's upper body.

Victor (45:35)

Okay.

C&A (45:59)

because that will also make it... Sorry. That was a little bit aggressive. Sorry, sorry guys. That was a little bit aggressive to me and then it just was explanation. Yeah. So both hands, because the leader is holding your other hand up. So it doesn't mean that he's holding it and you're just like, it's, you know, he's like holding it up. You actually hold it yourself. So the leader is not like holding it for you.

Victor (46:01)

Mm-hmm.

you

C&A (46:25)

And the other hand as well, it's not resting on the leader with weight. There's a light connection, but you don't put weight on the leader. So that's actually one thing that I noticed as a female follower, because obviously biologically, I don't have the same strength that Carlos, for example, So I feel it even more that if the follower is like resting their arms weight on me, it feels very heavy for me as a leader.

So that's why I think the upper body and the hands is something that followers often times forget to pay attention to. They only think about the steps and they forget that they should also carry themselves like from the upper body.

Victor (47:11)

Yeah, no, great. Listen, thank you. Great. And we hope that we are educating people just on some basics. So that's fantastic. That's fantastic. So all right. I want to talk to you two about, me hope I'm saying this correctly, but it's a Kudissanga. Is that the correct pronunciation? Yeah, no, I can see that is the right way. So Kudissanga, right? Yeah. Kudissanga festival and trips. So this is

C&A (47:17)

in it.

I think is this mirror, is it like, it's not the right way, is it? Yeah. okay. Yeah.

Victor (47:40)

something that you both do together. Okay, yeah, so we can we can all see that. Awanda Kizomba Festival. Beautiful, beautiful. So this is something that you both do together, you're organizing trips. So talk to us a bit about how this came about and what we can expect at one of these festivals.

C&A (47:41)

In this you can see well.

Well, Carlos started it in what?

2017. So he just started bringing Kizomba tourists to Angola. He was actually, I think he was the first... don't like, actually I don't like too much to say about that I'm the first one but... Okay but anyway he started in 2017. I was not like many years ago and then of course but actually also I need to say I'm happy that

now we have many people do the same work. It's really good. Because competition, it's right, say competition, bring quality. Better quality. And also it gives the dancers more work opportunities, it gives more exposure, it gives them income, it's good for the country like tourism. Because when I started doing...

like during the time I did the first one and the second one, no one was doing the same, you know, it was only me. And this time I was working with someone and then the lady that was pushing me to go to Kithomba was working with her during this time. But this time we had only people from Finland, of course.

And of course we had for the first trip, we had one person from outside from Finland. Then the second group also we had people from actually was having people from UK. And then, know, was counting like going, like going, like, you know, every trip that we get more people from different places from Australia, you know, all this way. then, when I was people was start coming do the same thing.

Then I was feeling that, okay, now this is now. when it started to grow. Change a little bit, give a little bit more quality. I don't mean that before we didn't give you a quality to give, but also, but you know, know, when you have a competition that you need to give a little bit more. So that's why we are now here trying to give always that better quality for our customer. We are not perfect, but we fighting to get us perfect person. That's, you know, that's the point.

Victor (50:28)

So what was it, what did you hope to do Carlos? You just want to, did you want to bring people to Angola to experience it? Was that the vision when you first started to organize it? Is that what it was?

C&A (50:38)

Exactly was that because I remember that was one lady I never tell her this but one day I need to this lady I still remember the lady like until today and then she was one student and she told me that but I have a question you guys teach Kizomba and then have you guys think one day to bring people to Angola then I say

Good idea. But of course I'm smart. I didn't tell her that's a good idea. I just keep on saying, yeah, probably one day, but I was feeling that she gave me a good idea. You know, you cannot show her like straight away like, yo, you give me the best idea. Maybe she will say, take out. No, give me half of money. You need to pay half of this. know. So then I just take the idea and then I will sit and then I was planning.

Victor (51:19)

I'm

C&A (51:34)

person was working with me we did the first, we did the second you know thing was going back well now we are here. this December was a 10th trip for Carlos.

Victor (51:49)

10th trip, well,

okay. So you're doing it quite a lot. lots of experience then.

C&A (51:53)

Yeah. It means that

we can stay like two years without doing tricks, but the people still can make it like two years, but they cannot come close to us because we haven't done many tricks.

Victor (52:08)

Yeah,

well just on that point, So just on that point, there are a lot more trips to Angola now. you know, what's the key then? What's the key ingredients to making this trip a success? What happens in your festivals?

C&A (52:13)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

For us, the main thing is the dancing because we feel like what we have learned from our customers in the past, that is what they come there to do. So we concentrate on that a lot. Of course, we do have sightseeing and stuff that you have to see and have to experience when you're in Angola, cultural stuff, the local food.

a lot of local stuff, but we know that the people, and I think that people also know that we concentrate on the dancing that in our trip, they will get a lot of dancing. So that's what, I don't know what other people, other organizers' emphasis is on because I haven't been to their trips, but I can only speak for myself that we really concentrate on the dancing part.

to give the tourists a dancing vacation that they will never forget. But again, just to clarify that what Anna was saying, we concentrate a lot. It's not only the thing that we do it. We have more stuff also, like cultural things that we do with many different things. But the main point of the trip, that's number one.

Victor (53:33)

that's great.

C&A (53:53)

It's that learning and dancing. That's because I think that people want to go to Angola. The first thing, if someone now decide to go to Angola because of the Kizomba, they don't want to go to just to see our president. They want to go to see like real Kizomba in Angola. To learn straight from the source, like learn from the actual dancers that are.

making the culture there at this very moment and evolving it, you know, like, yeah, I think that's it.

Victor (54:31)

Yeah,

no, absolutely, absolutely. So for someone, right, who's attending their first Kizomba festival, you know, what tips or advice would you give to them? Someone like me who's scared to dance with the locals, what are you gonna say? Yeah, Angola, your festival, yeah, Angola and your festival.

C&A (54:41)

Mm-hmm.

Do you mean?

You mean a trip to Angola?

Because

the festival is a little bit misleading because it's 10 days of visiting Angola and seeing everything and doing everything. So it's not exactly the same type of thing that you would associate with the word festival here in Europe. so that's why. Sorry, what was the question again?

Victor (55:05)

Okay. Yep.

Okay.

So basically, if that's the case, then any tips you can give to somebody attending Angola to improve their dance. Put it that way.

C&A (55:24)

Just come

with an open mind. don't expect it to be the same that what you're used to be like, keep an open mind to be very receptive. Like you're, you go there to receive a lot of information and to learn about new culture, to learn about different ways of doing stuff and different teaching methods, different way of learning, you know.

Victor (55:28)

Yeah.

C&A (55:54)

So just, I think you have to keep an open mind because that's the main thing. What do you think?

Victor (56:04)

Okay, great, cool.

And you come back a better dancer or definitely enlightened, I think.

C&A (56:09)

Yes, exactly.

But we also we don't like to, I don't say now we, cannot say me, I cannot say myself, I don't like to say that you come better because it's about your motivation, it's about your like effort. because also we have a guys, we have a leaders going to Angola

Victor (56:24)

Okay.

C&A (56:39)

then when they see people with a good level, they don't want dance. They might get a little bit scared or feel like they cannot dance there because they're not on that level. that's a... And this is one thing that I can say to myself. I have good things myself. Whenever I meet someone...

like people from UK, people from America, and people from Australia. I know that they are like people who speak... only English speaking countries? Yeah, because I'm talking about the English. So when I meet these people that the original language is English, I know that they speak perfect English. know, but I don't care. say, no, I'm going to try. This is not my language. You know, I just try to communicate. The most important thing that to...

to show them that I'm trying to do. I'm not scared to talk with them, you know? And this way, when I'm trying to do, I'm I'm proof that I'm trying to show to him that I want to try. Whatever, if I don't know, if I don't do well, but I'm trying. And he can understand that I'm trying to do my best to make him understand what I'm trying to do. That's the point.

So you mean like that's the same type

Victor (57:58)

Yeah.

C&A (57:59)

of like attitude when you come to Angola like you don't have to be same as someone else but you come there to learn and to better yourself, you know.

Victor (58:09)

Yeah, yeah, no, great, great. I just think that's the reason why I'm asking you so much is because I think that a lot of more people are going to these trips in Angola. So I really want people listening to just to understand what, you know, what could potentially happen when they go over there, the mindset and you guys are talking about that. So that's, that's great. That's fantastic. All right then. So in terms of Kizomba, you know, growth, growth and the culture, Carlos, how do you think Kizomba has evolved both in the dance?

C&A (58:16)

Mm-hmm.

Victor (58:38)

and the music, you know, over the years, how do you think it's evolved?

C&A (58:43)

Where? In my life? In Angola or in...

Victor (58:46)

just no just just in general in general. How do you think it's evolved over the years?

C&A (58:50)

I

think over the years, it's say that 1 to 100, it's involved like 85 % in my life, all the years. By working with that, also that... No, he means in general in the world, not in your life. But in general, how is Kizomba as a dance or as music evolved throughout the years.

That's a hard one. a hard one. That's good thinking. I like to talk about my life. That's why I was straight away just talking about my life. And this is a good thing. So I need to say this is a good thing because I'm talking about me, myself. This is the best thing. I'm not talking about someone more. It's like, you

Victor (59:22)

You can talk about your life as well if that's fine. yeah, that was the question.

That's why you're here.

But you know what,

it's great, you can answer it that way or the original way. It doesn't matter.

C&A (59:51)

By the way, it's, if I say about my life, it's involved like a lot of figures, you know, like, you know, we travel a lot. We travel almost like every week. Then we have classes in Finland when we are in Finland. Then we have the trip that we organize, you know, it's many things that whatever, if I don't want, when I go to my...

Victor (59:53)

Anyway.

C&A (1:00:21)

Facebook, it's Kizomba come out. If I go somewhere in WhatsApp, it's something about the Kizomba. Whatever, if you don't want, but every time, like in 10 minutes or five minutes, you will get some information about the Kizomba. You know, it's involved like a lot in my life.

Victor (1:00:41)

Yeah. Fantastic. And it's something that's going to stay and never go away, right? So it's a beautiful thing. OK.

C&A (1:00:43)

You

You can say now about the general. Like you say my life, now you can say about like

general. Well, I mean, of course, it's taken the world by storm, know, so of course that that has a lot of impact on both ways on the dance. But what I would always like to emphasize is that the actual

evolving of the dance happens in Angola because those dancers that are living and breathing Kizomba every day, they come up with new steps and new tricks and new whatever every day. it doesn't sometimes the narrative is somehow that in Angola it's stagnant and it's like

Traditional means that it doesn't evolve, like there are no new moves. But there are new moves like every day created in Angola by Angolans. So I don't agree with the narrative that the evolution happens outside of Angola. That's like another path, maybe even another dance. But the evolution of Kizomba

Victor (1:01:50)

Mm-hmm, all the time.

C&A (1:02:11)

happens in Angola and it is a popular recreative dance. How do you say that? Like, I don't know what that word is. Like, no, like not, not traditional dance, like something that, that keeps evolving and keeps changing all the time. So it's not a traditional dance. changes all the time.

Victor (1:02:21)

recreational.

Okay.

C&A (1:02:40)

No, because you're talking about your life you are like, you know, that's he asked someone is in the video I think on a small policy And Carlos most straightforward Yeah And then also I can say I get

Victor (1:02:52)

Well, you know what? The thing is, I asked one question and I got two answers. So I'm happy. So both of them are great. it's all I said.

C&A (1:03:09)

that so I can say it's involving many people now life because there is a people now they couple they they they can bring their life you know they can are we are you talking about involving or evolving because I feel like you might be talking about involving and we're talking about evolving involved means like in your life

Evolved means like to grow, to change. Okay, now you make me confused. Now she makes me confused. Okay, Anna, you are not the one to make a question. You are the answer. Give me the answer. He's the one to make the question. Okay, I just think I heard it. You get me confused. By the way, so you get me confused and then...

Victor (1:03:43)

Hey.

You know, the thing is, like I said, both answers have been great. So whatever you give me, I'm happy with. So we're happy. We're just spreading Kizomba So that's the main thing. And it's got an impact on your life and evolved over the years. So that's cool. All right. All right. Anna, question for you then, right? Specific question. Because you came into Kizomba. Well, you came into Kizomba obviously later than Carlos. But what surprised you most about Kizomba and the community?

C&A (1:04:11)

Yeah. Yeah.

Victor (1:04:36)

when you started dancing.

C&A (1:04:38)

Nothing surprises me anymore. I don't know, I don't have an answer to that question.

Victor (1:04:41)

No? Okay. Okay.

C&A (1:04:51)

I really don't I can help. think that you were surprised because you see that how people can be different like more happy. Okay, it does make people. You you see, you you see. feel it makes people more open and more open and more comfortable.

Victor (1:04:51)

So it was just, okay, fine. No problem, no problem.

C&A (1:05:18)

with other people because it's a very close like you dance close to someone else like a stranger a complete stranger so especially me being from Finland we are very we like our space like our personal space we do not go too near to other people we do not hug we do not do the cheek kisses we shake hands you know like we're very independent and you know so

Yeah, it does bring people closer to each other and it does open us, our personality more, to be more receptive and to be more understanding of others, I feel like, and just more social overall.

Victor (1:06:04)

OK, so that was a surprise, right? Because you weren't expecting that, basically. Yeah, yeah.

C&A (1:06:08)

Yeah, yeah, because I

yeah, I wasn't expecting those.

Victor (1:06:14)

Yeah, so Carlos answered your question for you or I got you to answer it that time

C&A (1:06:18)

What do see?

The tables have turned.

Victor (1:06:22)

That's time. Yeah, it's okay.

All right. So you are super busy, both of you, you you're always flying around. So, you know, how do you guys stay motivated, you know, to keep, you know, innovating and, you know, keep doing it, you know, what is your motivation come from?

C&A (1:06:44)

the people who pay for our class. Or the trips or whatever we do. Because everyone who takes your money wherever, it's 10 or 5 or 2 or 3, that we consider this money because, you know, and then if he wants to pay us to get our class and then it's something that motivates.

But not just the money, even just the time that they're using their time to do that. But let's be honest, it's first thing is so when people pay for them for having something like they pay for service, that it's something that also before it happened with the thing that we are doing, and then we want to give them a good service also. And then people who keeping like, know, support us to

you know, to continue doing the things that we're like people like you guys, like making interviews with us, and then people who follow us in Instagram, and to see our service and people, you know. Yeah, overall, like always, when we get bookings, we're very grateful, we're very happy about that. All the students that keep coming to our classes over and over again,

we are honored because that means that they really like what we do and that we're doing something right. And also just I really do also just appreciate the lifestyle because this is very like free, like we have our freedom, like, you know, it's a different type of lifestyle. Of course, it's not always easy and it's not always just fun and games that you might feel that it is from

Based on my Instagram for example, but it is a freedom that I wouldn't have in In my previous job. I used to work in a bank. So it's very different from yeah Yeah, so I also I love the freedom They say that it was life-changing yeah

Victor (1:08:51)

Very different. Yeah.

C&A (1:09:07)

This motivates a lot. It's something that makes us feel motivated. We do it the same way or the better way. Many people after those trips, actually say that it was a life-changing trip. So that really is very motivating.

Victor (1:09:29)

So people you hear that life-changing so get yourself onto one of these events at some point so Alright so okay, so what do you guys? Enjoy about dancing with each other or being together. What is it that you like to you know that you're together? So what is it that you enjoy about each other? the most

C&A (1:09:48)

I can start. Dancing

together. I love Carlos' creativity and musicality. That is something, sometimes I look at our videos and I'm like, you look so beautiful when you dance. Like it's not always, sometimes I'm like, when he, cause actually as a leader, he needs to really feel the music.

So for example, if we have a demo, if we're doing a demo, after class demo, and I pick the music, it will not be that good because he might not be feeling it. But if he picks the music and he really like gets into it, like he feels the music, then it's something magical. So it actually does, it's not all the time. So it's like when he actually like gets into that feeling, it's just really.

Victor (1:10:26)

Okay.

C&A (1:10:42)

Amazing. But we don't actually dance much together. only like at parties. We never dance together, but it's also because of the gender balance and everything. So we can't take that time from the paying customers that we would use it, you know, dancing with each other. But yeah, usually we don't dance at parties or, you know, at home unless we're preparing a class.

But then when we do prepare a class or when we're doing the demo or something, then sometimes it's really nice. Yeah.

Victor (1:11:17)

No, it's beautiful to... Lovely words from you there, Anna.

So Carlos, over to you. What do you enjoy?

C&A (1:11:23)

Honestly,

I don't know when was the last time we danced together. Like on our free time, yeah. Or parties. We go to festivals, then we dance together. Of course we do the class, we prepare in the class, you know. it's something like we have a contract. So we prepare in the class, we go through the class, now we don't work together anymore.

So then on the party we dance like with different people. think also that's the good. Okay, I respect who everyone who do that, that's different way. Like I see many people who they dance like a couple when they go to some like event, they will dance all many time together. And then, know, before they start dance with someone, they need to dance with couple. I understand that people, are free. They do whatever what they want.

but also my opinion that it's making help. Like if we got some event that if we don't take like space for someone dance with me, one lady dance with me or one guy dance with the Anna. So that's why we just, you know, we go and dancing with the different people. That's why we are there. That's why people dance with us.

Victor (1:12:44)

Okay, no, great. Fantastic. just want to a few more questions around, you know, your goals, you know, so what are what are your goals for the future? And where do you want to go? You know, next in your evolution in Kizomba together?

C&A (1:13:03)

I want to be the most rich guy on the Kizomba. That's my goal. I don't think Kizomba makes anyone rich, unfortunately. I would love that too, but it's very hard to get rich with Kizomba. No, honestly, that's joke, but I want to be rich. But I will say that I can say it's keeping growing.

Victor (1:13:18)

Okay.

C&A (1:13:31)

same way and keep doing that the better way and then sorry what was the question so we want to I can say what we want what is like what what what are we planning in the like what is our goals in the future like what do we want to do yes see see that everyone that keep going dancing Kizomba and the Kizomba more on the board and the same way that we we see ourselves

that the same way, like example that when I need to, sometimes when I need to explain for some Finnish people, not, you know, we have still some people that they don't know Kizomba, and then, but they know that I'm teacher, dance teacher. And when they ask me, what is Kizomba? What is dance? So I need to explain them that it's couple dance like Salsa. If I say like Salsa, they straight away they get, okay.

that's dance like Salsa you know if i just say Kizomba is a couple dance sometimes they don't get what the couple does if i say straight away it's like Salsa they dance together all this stuff they straight away understand so that's the the the so you want to spread Kizomba so much that it it becomes more known and then i hope that one day the Kizomba bring it as Angolan more like

tourism in Angola as the way we have... I don't know which country I can use here. Cuba. So Salsa trips to Cuba is huge. And tourism in Cuba is huge because of Salsa. Yeah, but I can say some country like us...

Victor (1:15:10)

something.

C&A (1:15:24)

like open as tourism, like strongest tourism in Angola and then the people concentrate like when the people going to Angola and they don't need to be always with someone as like making work for him. so you mean build the country so that the tourism would be open like anyone so people can go alone because at some time I feel so sad

Victor (1:15:40)

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

C&A (1:15:52)

as Angola and when someone starts talking, I want to to Angola, but I'm afraid for, you know, of course I don't feel good because I don't feel good as Angola because I know that how beautiful country I have, of course, but I want that people go to Angola and feel like you are at home, like you have everything like safe, all the stuff.

and you don't need to care about anything. But I understand also that it's not only about Angola, it's about the world. It's a little bit different. You don't know what it will say for you, like 100%. But talking about our work, so we want to continue doing the trips and growing the trips and bettering.

our work all the time. And of course, we hope to continue keeping a busy schedule, being booked to different festivals in different countries. And for that, we need to always keep evolving and keep learning and keep bettering ourselves as dancers and as teachers. So keep doing what we do, but always a little bit better and a little bit further.

Victor (1:17:22)

Well, you've got the mindset we've set at the top of the conversation. You've got the mindset for that. So, you know, I wish you both well and you don't really need it because you guys are doing an amazing job already. Just keep doing it. Keep doing it. Keep doing it. And yeah, I'm certainly going to be watching the journey. So what advice would you give to people who want to do what you do? So, you know, people getting into this space of teaching, traveling, that people listening or watching, what advice would you give to them?

C&A (1:17:31)

Thank you.

You mean like people who want to become teachers or... Okay. I would say, because there is always a lot of talk about the thing that I said before about when you are ready to start teaching. And I feel like those people who are worried about that, they are the ones who could already start. Because those people who are not worried about that, they will start whenever.

Victor (1:17:57)

Yeah, or do what you do, pretty much, yeah.

C&A (1:18:23)

And that will bring the distortion. Is it distortion? It becomes distorted. The ones that are not really that good will start because they have the courage to start. And then those that are actually hesitating are the ones that actually understand that, I might not know it all, but I know this and this. And they are usually the ones with the correct mindset. But then because they don't start,

the one who started and is not as good as they are is the one that people will learn from. So seek knowledge, go to different teachers classes because there's always something that different people can give to you. So don't be just like one path only like try to seek different type of knowledge from different people. And also start

Just start. just have to start. Because there is no shame also in saying that, hey, I don't like someone ask you a question. I don't know the answer to this, but I can ask someone wiser than me. And then I will let you know, because you're not a god. You don't have to know it all. And it's also OK to say that, you know what, actually, I've learned something new information. What I taught to you before is not necessarily

what is done nowadays or what is the best way of doing it. But I've learned something new. So let's correct that and let's do this. So there's no shame in making mistakes or admitting that you were wrong. That's growth. So I think, of course, to a certain level, like if you started yesterday, then maybe you don't need to think about teaching tomorrow. But...

When you already have a certain level of knowledge, don't be afraid. Usually the best teacher is the one that is only one step ahead of you because they still remember what it was to be on your level and what you need to get to the next level.

Victor (1:20:34)

Yeah. No. Great. Fantastic. Great advice.

C&A (1:20:37)

Carlos zoned out. He was not

listening to one word. was like, let her talk.

Victor (1:20:44)

Carlos, you wanna add anything or should we leave it with that?

C&A (1:20:48)

Now I just say that people can like the thing I was saying like I think 20 minutes ago

need to trust yourself. Whatever anything that you do, if you don't trust yourself, Carlos cannot come help you that pushing, taking your hands every place that you go in and hey, do it, do it, do it. You are the only one need to trust yourself to do whatever. You are the only one need to trust yourself to wake up morning to go and work or to do whatever stuff you do it.

and then you are the only one who needs to cross herself to make it if you want to be a teacher. That's the only thing I say.

Victor (1:21:36)

Again, so great advice from you both. anybody listening and wanting to do what you do, you've got some great advice for some people who are great at what they do and they're doing it already. So thank you so much to both of you. It's been great. Been great getting to know you as well. You're definitely going to be coming back because there's so much we can talk about, but this is just about getting to know you and getting your names out there and people finding out about you.

C&A (1:21:58)

Thank

Thank

you.

Victor (1:22:05)

Thank you. So where can we connect with you? So tell us your socials. Where can people find out about you?

C&A (1:22:11)

Yes, first I

will say the trips to Angola. in July, we do it twice a year. July is a small group trip and December is a bigger group. So July is called Kudissanga trip. On Instagram it's Kudissanga underscore trip. So that's for July. And for December it's Kudissanga underscore festival. So these are the trips that we do to Angola.

Then we have a joint Instagram account. And also on Facebook it's the same. Kudissanga Festival and Kudissanga Trip to Angola. We have a joint Instagram as well. Carlos underscore Anna underscore. think there is... Why you say my Instagram? No, I know. No, I said our joint one. Is there an underscore after that? Maybe it's Carlos underscore Anna.

or Carlos underscore Anna underscore. And then mine is, I don't remember. And then mine is Anna underscore Maria Z underscore. And then Carlos.

Victor (1:23:12)

Okay.

Lots of underscores.

C&A (1:23:24)

Yeah. Yeah.

My Instagram is like Carlos underscore Camba. With C. Yeah, everything with C. And then in my Facebook, it's just Carlos Camba. You'll find everything. And something more. if you're interested in coming to our trips, they sell out fast. have

Victor (1:23:28)

test.

C&A (1:23:52)

Last year for December we sold out in May and this year for July we sold out in October so we had to open another group. now the other group is already sold out but we now have another group that we opened. So if you want to join our trips act fast, don't think about it too much. Just buy your, you know, or pay your deposit and think about the rest later.

Victor (1:24:22)

Love it. Okay, fantastic.

C&A (1:24:25)

And we promise

to change your life after the trip. So this is, yeah, this is, I can say a hundred percent that you will change your life after the trip. Yeah, for good points. Good thing.

Victor (1:24:31)

You heard it here first people.

can't argue with that. So beautiful. So thank you again to you both. We always have a closing tradition though, before we let our guests go. And that is we want to have a little play, a bit of fun with you and just see how you answer some questions. So we have these cards here. You should be able to see them, hopefully. So there's three different colours, orange, yellow, and green.

C&A (1:24:55)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Victor (1:25:08)

So the idea is, you know, because there's three of us, you both will pick one. I will read it out and you tell us, you tell us the answer. And yeah, we'll have one each. So Anna, we'll start with you. What colour would you like?

C&A (1:25:17)

Okay.

I'll take

the yellow one.

Victor (1:25:26)

yellow okay so all right so all right so you you are dancing in the middle of a packed Kudissanga festival or dance floor all right see what i did there all right but you're dancing in a packed festival or club it could be either one which is packed all right the person you're dancing with

C&A (1:25:29)

I'm scared.

Yeah? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Victor (1:25:56)

They won't stop talking during the dance. They just won't stop talking, right? So how do you handle it is the question. How do you handle that situation?

C&A (1:26:07)

I say a little bit in that language that I don't speak the language that they're speaking I can and and my say like what will save me in any situation is just start speaking Finnish because nobody will understand the word if I speak in Finnish so Easy that was too easy

Victor (1:26:15)

very good.

Too easy for you? Okay, fine.

But we got it inside. Okay, all right. Excellent. Carlos, what colour?

C&A (1:26:35)

Thank

Green one. Yeah.

Victor (1:26:44)

green

yep all right okay so really this for you anyway all right if you could teach Kizomba in one country for the rest of your life where would it be

C&A (1:26:50)

So easy.

Hmm.

Victor (1:27:04)

You can only teach it in one country for the rest of your life. What country would you choose?

C&A (1:27:12)

Well actually that's not that easy that you were thinking about. yeah, I'm not answering. I'm just saying that it's not that easy that you would first think.

I mean, it's easy.

Victor (1:27:28)

Okay.

C&A (1:27:29)

But it can be a mistake because during this time that we become teachers and travel to many different countries, we visit many countries that are feeling in love with this country. Like I have some countries that I feel in love with, that I was feeling in love with India.

Victor (1:27:58)

Mm-hmm.

C&A (1:27:59)

And then with Benin.

with Kenya and US Australia and Australia so these five countries I was really feeling love these five countries yeah so enough these five countries just one

Victor (1:28:34)

That's hard,

C&A (1:28:37)

I think, honestly, think... Sorry for everyone.

So this, I take it Angola out because I cannot put it Angola there.

Victor (1:28:50)

Yes, yes. Yeah, you can't undo that.

So which one are you choosing?

C&A (1:29:00)

All right.

Victor (1:29:03)

stressful for colours. Alright, that's all for me. Alright, you know what? It's cool.

C&A (1:29:09)

I think think I

think I think I'm gonna take Australia. I want to say the same. Yeah, Australia because Australia. Australia. Sorry, Australia. Or maybe you. Yeah, Australia. No, no, no, no, no,

Victor (1:29:14)

Okay, fantastic. The funny thing is I was just literally about to choose for you and I was gonna say Australia. So we're in sync.

Yeah? Okay. And they have a big, big, big, big Kizomba community there.

C&A (1:29:35)

But or

Victor (1:29:36)

No? No.

C&A (1:29:37)

US because US is bigger in US you could like travel more. I don't mean only so about the travel. No, I to have more like you know opportunities. Yeah, it's about the opportunities, the loving the place, the weather, you know there is many things that involve. For me as a person, sorry I forget to put those on the group five Argentina but yeah.

Victor (1:29:54)

Okay, okay. Yeah.

C&A (1:30:05)

but I was thinking that it's coming something more difficult. Well imagine if you had difficulties in choosing this like it took you two minutes. No, Yeah. But what about you? The red one was for you.

Victor (1:30:06)

Okay, no worries. It's a beautiful country as well.

Yeah, I don't think you can say that Carlos because you were stressing just now, all right? So,

So my one, yeah. Oh wow, okay. So if a time machine, so if there was a time machine, took you back to your very first Kizomba class, what advice would you give to yourself? Yeah.

C&A (1:30:28)

What does it say?

So your very first.

Victor (1:30:48)

Yeah, so my advice to myself and my very first Kizomba class, because I was terrified by the way, but it would be just be patient, just relax and smile because it's not that bad. But I didn't enjoy my first Kizomba class at all. it's the music that keeps us coming back. So yeah, just relax, just chill and...

C&A (1:31:04)

Yeah.

really?

Victor (1:31:17)

It's okay, you'll get it at some point, so.

C&A (1:31:17)

Actually, I would have also

said, don't cry.

Victor (1:31:21)

Yeah, don't cry, right? So, but look at where we are now. We're making a podcast about Kizomba because we love it so much. that's fantastic. All right.

C&A (1:31:27)

Yeah.

I need to say

I fell in love with the podcast and then Instagram Live because we did also last week. And then I like everything as like natural things that you don't need to prepare yourself that, you know, sorry, sorry to say that sometime that last time also they did that the question that some question that

We need to know a little bit that we did some broadcasts. No, no, some live. And the question, they sent some question that they will say that they're going to ask us. And then I say, no, I don't want to the question because I don't want to prepare it myself. Sometimes it's good that you test yourself that everything that you know that you don't need to preparing like before.

So it's as natural. Like for me, I like to feel everything as natural, you know? I like to be prepared. Yeah.

Victor (1:32:34)

Yeah. Okay, so

you both have different, different styles there. Okay. Well, I hope that you've enjoyed yourself on that on this podcast. And it wasn't too stressful apart from the last question there for Carla.

C&A (1:32:39)

Yeah.

A lot. No, thank you a lot. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you again for inviting

us. It was really fun.

Victor (1:32:50)

No problem. And like I say, we hope to have you back in the future if you guys are up for that to talk about some other things.

C&A (1:32:54)

I will be asking all

the time, hey guys, I will send all the time message like for you guys, hey guys, when do we come back again? Because I want to do it again podcast, you know? Yeah.

Victor (1:33:02)

Okay.

Okay. We'll have you back anytime. Have you back anytime. Thank you so much. But but actually, we have one more thing to do before you go. Now this is new. So you're going to be the first people on our podcast doing this. But we have one bonus round, okay. And we're to play a little game if you're up for that. So the game is called match. And this is really about how well you know each other. And should you actually be together?

C&A (1:33:28)

Okay.

Victor (1:33:29)

as a dance couple. Right? So this is how it's gonna go. All it is, I'm gonna ask you some questions and you just need to use your thumb. All right? And you need to point. So you need to either point to, yeah, which one it is. And the way it is, is that if you both point to, you know, each other, you get a point. But if you don't point to each other, then you don't get a point. Yeah? So that's...

C&A (1:33:39)

Which one it is, okay.

each other.

Okay. you mean like,

we both, we both think it's Carlos. Then we get a point. Yeah. The same person.

Victor (1:33:58)

Yeah, so if you point to the same person, you get a point. Yeah. So

we have nine questions and you need to get four for us to consider you a dance couple that can keep only four minutes. I'm being nice. Right? If you want more, that's fine. I'm being nice because it's the first one we're doing. All right.

C&A (1:34:10)

Only four.

Okay.

Let's see how it goes. We can put seven. can put seven. We can put

seven. Okay. Okay. Come to the frame. Come to the frame.

Victor (1:34:24)

All right now so

all right so can I actually see you properly that's the thing okay yeah I need to make sure I can see you properly all right so the first question all right who takes longer who takes longer to get ready before a Kizomba festival or class

C&A (1:34:29)

Yeah.

Nice.

I told you before

you say, you see me, I know everything is coming. I know, I say straight away,

Victor (1:34:51)

Okay, all right, so,

okay, you got one point, all right. Second question, who is more likely to forget the choreography mid-performance?

C&A (1:35:01)

Forget the choreography. No need for explanation. Just admit it. Just admit it, Carlos. You're terrible. No, no, no, no, no. I just need to clarify something here. You know it's you. This question, think there is something that we need to clarify because she cannot remember everything because I'm the leading.

Victor (1:35:12)

Carlos, are you pointing to yourself or are you pointing away?

C&A (1:35:31)

and she don't have anything to remember. That is me. Do you get my point? Do you remember at the class when... That's why I say this question is a little bit... But he said choreography. but... So it means Carlos, let's remember the time when you forgot about the step and Sven needed to show it in the middle of the But that's not choreography means. So we agree that it's Carlos.

Victor (1:35:38)

Yeah, yeah, I do, I do.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, I did say curb.

So Carlos, Carlos, get your

point. Yeah, I get your point, right? But if it's choreography, then it means that you both rehearsed it, you both know the moves, so it's a performance. So with that in mind, where are you pointing?

C&A (1:36:04)

We both know it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

By force,

Victor (1:36:15)

Okay.

Okay so you got two questions correct right? Okay this is fairly easy. Who is more likely to lose their passport while traveling for a festival?

C&A (1:36:20)

Uh-huh. Yeah, Uh-huh.

And I, my God, I just left my ID in the toilet and I lost it.

Yep, so there we go.

Victor (1:36:38)

right so you all right so three to three all right okay next question

who is more strict when teaching Kizomba

C&A (1:36:50)

more strict, you mean like for the, to the students or?

Victor (1:36:52)

Yeah.

Yes. To the students. Who's more strict when teaching Kizomba?

C&A (1:37:00)

I think it's just a little bit hard. Yeah, because it depends. I know all the students like more me than Anna, that I don't know who's more strict. But more strict, yeah.

Can we skip? Yeah, let's skip. Because it depends. Sometimes it seems, sometimes it doesn't.

Victor (1:37:20)

Alright, let's leave that question because you got through already. That's

fine. Okay. Alright. Alright, this is an interesting question, alright? So I'm gonna be interested to see where you point because it's personal. But who has the better taste in Kizomba music?

C&A (1:37:29)

Hmm.

better taste.

Bye!

Well, if

Sorry, but I'm gonna take this one and lose the point because I think it's When it comes to demos, like I said, yeah, then I will let Carlos choose because he knows what song fits us and fits our style This means that it's me. But sometimes I'm not feeling your choice at all. You don't need to agree with someone like every time, but the exact time, like right now.

Victor (1:38:13)

Okay. All right, Anna.

So you're happy to lose the point, right? You're happy to lose the point. You can say it's you.

C&A (1:38:18)

I will, I

will, now I will put my ego in and I will lose the point because I think...

Yeah.

Victor (1:38:26)

Okay,

all right. Who is more likely to eat all the snacks during a festival?

C&A (1:38:33)

Both. At both. Yeah. Yeah. Eating the snacks, yeah.

Victor (1:38:36)

So you're pointing, both of you. Yeah?

Okay. right. Who is more likely to dance through the night without stopping?

C&A (1:38:49)

Hello, are you still with us?

Victor (1:38:52)

Yeah,

yeah. All right. So you officially hit the four. So you guys are all right. Just two more questions. Who is more likely to make the other laugh in the middle of a serious class or performance?

C&A (1:39:06)

Again?

Sorry, again? it, Who is more-

Victor (1:39:08)

So who is more likely to make the other person laugh in the middle of a serious performance? So who is more likely to tell jokes? Okay, all right, okay. And this is, so you guys, you guys are already past, all right? So we say that you should be together as a couple, still doing what you're doing, right?

C&A (1:39:13)

It's me. I was jokes more here during the class and everything.

Sorry, before we go to

the last one, I need to say that why sometimes I used to have that, because we're not, like, mean, like to making people a little bit more funny on the class or this stuff, it's because sometimes that we see, you can see that the people, when they are lost, it's so concentrated on the class and the class becomes more hard on them.

We need something to bring them like relax, to make them understand that, hey, come on man, relax, you know, just getting fun. Hey, actually, because I want to take that one point back. So I will say that Carlos's taste is better because all the playlists that we use are made by Carlos and I love his playlist. So yeah, I will give it to him. has like, there we go.

Victor (1:40:06)

I get it.

Well you still passed anyway so that's cool. Let's go to the very last question now this okay right okay who is a better dancer?

C&A (1:40:31)

Yes.

Oh my god, no but it's funny I can say that I love it that my first

Victor (1:40:44)

Okay, I wasn't sure if I should put that question there, but I just wanted to have a bit of fun with it. So that's all good. No, but okay.

C&A (1:41:03)

podcast I did in my life. So what was the what was the what was the score? It was like seven from nine.

Victor (1:41:10)

Yeah, yeah, but the point is you got four correct. So, you know, you got more, you got you.

C&A (1:41:12)

Yeah, but if we're no no, no, we're

gonna compete against everyone that comes to the podcast and we will win

Victor (1:41:21)

Well, I think he got about five right if I'm not mistaken. Something like that. No.

C&A (1:41:23)

No, it was at least seven. We only

didn't get like two.

Victor (1:41:32)

Okay, well, all right, you know what? I'm gonna watch it back and we'll get the score properly. but like I said, this was the first one and you played it very, very well. But the main thing is that you got four, which was the minimum. you can stay together. We're letting you stay together. Yeah, right. But no.

C&A (1:41:42)

Yeah. Okay. Yes. Thank you. I want to say something that

before we finish for you, like direct for you that I'm so happy that we have people, we have people now in these.

doing this, like start seeing the things like for all that we need that kind of podcast that people can talk a little bit about themselves and then about the work, everything they do it. And that's mean that you fall on that everything that we do and some other guys doing. this is my opinion. That's something like so good that, know,

You to meet support from the everyone to To like, you know give you an energy here to continue Doing the same the same work because this is just for the community. You're not getting paid, right? So it's just for the love of it exactly but I also I like to say also that We know that We sometimes we try to do the best, but we not we cannot make everyone happy

Victor (1:42:48)

Yeah, just for the love of Kizomba, yeah.

C&A (1:43:00)

We are always someone that's come and try to stop.

We need more people who do work like you to make this more bigging.

Victor (1:43:16)

Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. It's, you I'm not going to say jealous, but I wish that, you know, my country Ghana had your dance. I wish I grew up with Kizomba. Right. But I found it later. So that's all good. I am indeed. So, so not my main sport, but yeah, it's okay. Yeah, it's okay.

C&A (1:43:25)

Hahaha!

You're from Ghana? nah, nah, do you like football?

Victor (1:43:43)

But listen, no, thank you, Carlos, and thank you very much. And it's just really all about this dance captivated me back in, what is it, 2010 or so. And since then, I haven't really looked back. Even though I hated my first class, I haven't looked back. I know so many people love Kizomba, right? And I just want to spread it and get it as big as some of the other dancers out there. And yeah, that's great.

C&A (1:43:55)

But you continued.

Can I ask, and you can

obviously because I know you need to keep it in some sort of like time frame so you can cut it out if you want but why did you stay? Like what made you stay? Because you said you hated your first class, why did you stay?

Victor (1:44:22)

It was literally the music. So two things. One is that you, okay, you don't like something, but that doesn't mean that you stop. You go back and you try and figure out, okay, did I really not like that? Or was I having a bad day or what happened? So when you come back, you're like, okay, you know, I can dance Salsa. I should be able to pick this up. Let's just slow down. It's not like Salsa. It's a completely different dance. Right? So it's more about trying to figure out why.

C&A (1:44:28)

Hmm?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Victor (1:44:48)

I didn't like it. And then after, if I'm really honest with you, it was just the music. After that, the music and the music, you know, obviously after the class, they would play Ghetto Zouk, all that kind of stuff. And that's kind of what gets you first. And then you go into Kizomba. Then you start to understand that Kizomba, Ghetto Zouk, they're different. But I think a lot of people start with Ghetto Zouk, don't they? And then that's their introduction into Kizomba. Or at least back in the day anyway. But then after that, there's no looking back after the music hits you. Like what you said, Anna.

C&A (1:44:51)

Yeah, same as me.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Victor (1:45:18)

earlier. You know, so yeah, I'm a big fan and a big

C&A (1:45:18)

Yeah. True. Yeah.

Victor (1:45:23)

fan of both of you as well. And keep doing what you're doing and spreading it going around, you know, the world and whatever. we're gonna I'm gonna keep following you and people on the on the call on the watching, please follow Carlos and Anna and support where you can. And I just want to say thank you to you both. And as always, we want to say thank you to everyone who tuned in. Please, please tell us what you think of the episode.

And like I always say, we will see you on the dance floor, hopefully. So take care. Peace.

C&A (1:45:53)

Bye. Thank you.

Victor (1:45:57)

So you guys stay there.