"If You Don't Love Kizomba Music, Stop Dancing" — Rabbil’s Hard Truth

TAKEAWAYS

• Rabbil's journey into dance began with Salsa and Bachata.

• Kizomba claimed Rabbil due to its deep emotional connection.

• Music is essential for a dancer's success and enjoyment.

• Learning Kizomba can be challenging without access to authentic teachers.

• Rabbil emphasizes the importance of understanding Kizomba's roots.

• Kizomba Treat is an event focused on authentic dance experiences.

• Addressing gender imbalances in dance events is crucial for enjoyment.

• Authenticity in Kizomba is being challenged by modern trends.

• Teaching requires a deep understanding of dance fundamentals.

• Rabbil hopes to leave a lasting impact on the Kizomba community.

SOUNDBITES

• "If you don't love music, don't dance."

• "Music is the master."

• "Classes with purpose."

• "What are we losing and what are we gaining?"

• "To be a good dancer, learn the fundamentals."

TRANSCRIPT

Victor (01:42.744)

Hello Kizomba friends and welcome back to another episode of Kizomba Conversations. As always, I'm your host, Victor. Today, I'm excited because we are joined by a guest who's not only a Kizomba teacher, he teaches Semba, also teaches Konpa, and he's also an event organizer. So let's welcome Mr. Rabbil to Kizomba Conversations. Rabbil, how are you doing,

Rabbil (02:08.472)

Hello, I'm doing good Victor. I hope you're doing well as well.

Victor (02:14.264)

fantastic and thank you for coming on the podcast we're really excited about having you man and I know you've got a great story I know you love what the love of passion that you have for Kizomba and we're really looking forward to exploring that with you so thank you very much sir

Rabbil (02:30.144)

I'm so excited also to be here and it's an honour and thank you so much to Kizomba Conversations for having me here. All the staff behind the hidden screens. So thank you so much and thank you Victor for your amazing initiative to the community.

Victor (02:47.468)

No worries, man. It's honour to have you, man. So you know the podcast, Rabbil. And obviously there are people that know you from your area and in terms of how long he's been on the scene as well. But there are some people who don't know you too, all right? And for those people especially, the very first question we  find out a bit about your background. So, you know, even before dance, before festivals, before anything, right? Give us a flavor. Who is Rabbil

Rabbil (03:16.92)

Okay, quick one. Let me try to find a quick to give a quick and short version. So I'm Rabbil and my full name is Rabil Nguije and I am born from a family of 10 and I'm originally from Burundi and I'm half Rwandan as well as my mother is from Rwanda as well. So I'm half Burundian Rwandan.

living in Belgium now since 2018 and here I am.

Victor (03:50.486)

Fantastic. you. So living in Belgium. Yeah, I know that the Kizomba. Is it quite a big scene in Belgium, Kizomba?

Rabbil (03:55.265)

Yeah.

Rabbil (04:00.824)

It used to be a very big scene and very active but after corona it somehow shifted. People had some other interests than that it can be seen and yeah, on the way it's a challenging situation on every dancing scene but we still have an authentic Kizomba dancing scene in Belgium so the smaller it is but it's really nice.

Victor (04:24.302)

Beautiful, beautiful. And I know you're doing everything you can to build it up. So yeah, thank you for doing that.

Rabbil (04:30.272)

Yes, yes I'm trying my best to also bring my two cents to it to keep it alive and to keep it fresh to keep them having the fresh taste of it.

Victor (04:43.832)

Beautiful, yeah. Well, we'll talk about your event as well a bit later on as well. So we're get into that as well. So you mentioned Burundi, you mentioned Rwanda as well in terms of your heritage. And if I'm not mistaken, you got a bit of royalty influencing your family, is that correct?

Rabbil (05:00.382)

Yeah, somehow, yeah. We are tied to the royalty from my grandfather. My grandfather worked for the king, the last king of Burundi, and that, let's say, alliance or ties is because of him working for the king and also what he inherited, for example. Maybe it can be that, but yeah.

Victor (05:27.47)

So I have royalty on the podcast. So as a very person, I've got royalty here. So yeah, thank you, It's all good, man. Okay. Now listen, thank you very much for a little bit of history there. So let's talk a bit about dance then, all right? So am I right in saying, I think that you found dance when you were around 19 years old?

Rabbil (05:30.048)

I'm just a simple person, you know.

Victor (05:49.87)

Well, you found Latin dance, should I say, when you were around 19, through salsa and bachata, like so many of us do, all right? But then you found Kizomba, okay? And then clearly that became something deeper, all right? As it does with many of us. So my question, the first question I  ask you in our conversation is really about, you know, you've got salsa, you've got bachata, other dances, but Kizomba's here, right?

What was it about Kizomba that claimed you? I'm not going to say, ask you which one you like the best out of those dances, but there's clearly a love for Kizomba. So I just  find out what is it about this dance man that claimed you?

Rabbil (06:29.799)

Yeah, what claims even a big word, a big word because I think it's the fact that Kizomba spoke to my soul, my heart and it had this ease to connect with my soul and myself and I also connected with it easily due to also my childhood. The music I grew up listening mostly is what connected me in the first place to Kizomba is the music.

and I grew up with the Congolese mostly rumba like when I say rumba like the real ones and also we had a lot of Zouk. Every Caribbean, Antillean music, West Indies music would just call it Zouk which happened to Kizomba as well yeah so it was this thing and the people also would take it more from that perspective because this is how it's received as Zouk.

And then after they discovered that actually it's Kizomba. it's called Kizomba. Yeah, you know. So it was more for the its roots and what was my background or what I've listened in my upbringing. Yeah.

Victor (07:44.812)

Yeah, so Congolese background, is that what you said, right? Yeah, and I know Congo got some great dancers, all right? Absolutely amazing. Okay, all right, well, okay, fine. Everyone's different, okay? Well, you dance to Kizomba well that's the thing, right? Obviously.

Rabbil (07:47.808)

Yes.

Rabbil (07:53.336)

And unfortunately I cannot dance like that. yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I dance the Rumba dance cool way as we do 1-2-1-2, you know, side-side-side-gather, you know. So.. That's the only way.

Victor (08:10.818)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But all those dancers are wonderful. It doesn't matter how you express yourself, okay, cool. then, yeah, so through, you know, authentic dancers, then obviously we talk about Zouk. Zouk is a very big influence for many people when it comes to Kizomba as well. We can't forget about the sounds of Zouk. We can't, you know, forget that. So absolutely. And I totally understand that. Okay, cool.

Rabbil (08:18.389)

Yeah.

Rabbil (08:28.822)

Yeah.

Victor (08:37.058)

And then in terms of dancing then, so if I could ask you, you because you said about that, but what do you love about Kizomba? What is it that you love about it?

Rabbil (08:47.511)

First of all, it was not even something I can put a hand on. It was more of a feeling than just a mechanical or fact or something more physical, you know. It's... Well, it also goes in the period I started dancing, also. It was in a period where it was right after my mother's passing away.

and it was very dark for me and I didn't have any taste of life or something and then my siblings they tried to get me out of my room and my box and to I can have life again and so on they took me to the salsa club and

Yeah, and they tried to interest me that yeah, actually, you know, if you integrate the group, you will also even do the weddings and you will earn money, you know, you will have these new things to try to impress me because I never danced before. I loved music, but I never danced at all, even at home at parties. I was running away when there were parties. I was just hiding because I it wasn't my thing. And then I go, I say, OK, why not? Let's try and

I have nothing else to do. Let's go. And when I went there, it was very challenging for me to give in just for salsa and bachata. And although they are both music and dances that I really love and they have a very special place in my musical heart, know, and artistic love and heart. And so I was like, okay. Then the first week was like, this is not going to be my thing because

I can't, I can't do it physically and I was like from Rudo to Kizomba to Salsa Bachata it was really hard to switch. And then came Kizomba on the upcoming week we just got lucky it's like the universe wanted it to happen. There was a Burundian Erasmus student who was living in Russia. We came and he was invited as a guest teacher on that day on a Tuesday.

Rabbil (11:09.555)

I remember and he came and he taught us like what was the basic steps of Kizomba at the time like one two three, Saida the woman, Saida the mulher and the corridinha, virgula and then that was it and I was like apart from the dancing there's something the music this is Zouk actually you know and

I was like, this is my dance, I don't have to spin, I don't have to do anything. I am with my partner and I'm enjoying my music and we just walk around and I can just do left side, left, right, left, right. was like, this is the step, this is the movement. Okay, here we go. And that was the journey and I was like, I went to him, was like, hey man, I like this dance so much. I want you to give me like...

Source of work and learning from and so on and see how it goes. I was like, yeah, it's easy. You can just go on YouTube Download videos you certainly write Kizomba on by you will see all these artists I can send you the names I can give you the names I said, yeah, just send me a text of the teachers and so on and that we go there and this is how it started and I was like, okay now this is going to be my thing. I have to do if I have to dance

then I will dance Kizomba and that went from there I took a dance partner who was more advanced than me in Kizomba in Salsa Bachata said listen I know you already have your thing in the Salsa Bachata but I think here we'll create something special and I really  do this with you and I was like okay let's try it and I did my research it's my YouTube downloading I went on the

Cibber Coffee, I paid 1000 for one hour just downloading videos. I had all those videos. If you know trending videos that were there like the last in the past 10 years or 15, 12, that was the moments. I can't forget those moments. have flashes every time, you know.

Rabbil (13:36.811)

Yeah, so at the time I watched a lot of videos from Fabricio, Fabricio do Zangado. I watched also Mr. Tecas, was at the time he was on The Hype. And I watched Tony Pirata and Sophie Fox. And Morenazos, they were like the most...

trendy at that time that were there, were there, Albir as well, Magico, that video of Magico, I don't know that anybody has passed it. Yeah, among many, many, I was having a lot of people like searching out, discovering every day. I remember when I fell on Mestre Petchu video on YouTube, was like, huh? Why is he dancing?

different than the others then because he didn't do those tricks on the floor, those liftings and so on and I was like, yeah, there's something different here and then, know, and, but I was more into getting first my thing there and I did that and it's, it went very nice and people started to look for it and I was like, you know, in the club now you have Salsa and Bachata, why can't we add?

Kizomba in the nights we play two or three if people can't dance we lead it, you know We just teach them the basic steps and we we showed them and this is how I Can say my dancing career started like four three months after I started joining the club Because I was already a Kizomba expert then

Victor (15:22.336)

Yeah, beautiful. No, no, beautiful, Beautiful.

Rabbil (15:24.758)

So, and like this, it brought me in the team because people, the community, the population, the clientele was more like receiving the Kizomba and it was for them like another sort of way of dancing Zouk and we're playing Kassav music, we're playing all those Zouk songs and also Kizomba music.

because I was the provider of the Kizomba music, was the source, I downloading everything I give to the DJ, just play this is Kizomba, everything there. So it was all these Ghetto Zouk. At that moment, Nelson Freitas was the hit, L.G. Beats, Killa and Mika Mendes. We had also Puto Portugues and Yuri Da Cunha, they were producing a little, we listen to the music more there.

And then I discovered something called Semba in the semba family. Because for me, everything was like this. Whatever Albir is dancing, whatever Tekas is dancing, everything was just Kizomba together. Different versions and different Kal and Suave and so on. Then I discovered I do something called Semba. was like, okay, it is Semba.

Then I went and I wrote SEMBA and SEMBA was all those tricks and I was like, ah, this is nice but I would break into pieces if I tried to do this. So I need to find a way to get this and I started to download videos of SEMBA and then it even shifted if you would have been in that time in the parties. And now we started to download those super fast Kazukuta SEMBA, slash SEMBA songs, you know, for me to bring also something new. was like, you know, now we have SEMBA, everything.

For me, everything that was slow, it was Kizomba. Everything that was high energy, was Semba. For me, it was like, yeah, this is it. So Semba was doing those crazy lifts and so on. And people liked it. It was like a show. They would just leave the floor just to watch me dance there.

Rabbil (17:44.31)

For me it was like Kizomba just changed my life. Now I just got to be in the team. I'm getting in weddings, I'm having food from weddings, I'm getting my 5,000 per show. It's amazing, you know, it's amazing. from my Ghetto, knowing from my Ghetto where I grew up, like, it's crazy to call it my Ghetto, but it was my neighbourhood, you know. And...

I was like, my friends were like, now you are the salsa guy, you know, because it was not normal to see me, one of the guys there, dancing salsa and bachata and so on. And they didn't see it. It was more something not normal. And I'm very thankful. That's why I'm very thankful to Kizomba because it kept me away from the, it saved me from the streets, let me say.

to have even a purpose, it gave me a purpose into life. It showed me that...

Once you open your mind and you can let something in in your life, it's easily possible to be your life changing moment, you know, and from then it was like I would do anything. I would come from school. I would eat, take a shower, change and quickly go to rehearsals right after and I would come back. I would do...

my draws at home and then I will revise my studies and then I will go to sleep next day to school and I will try to get some of my classmates to come to join the club and the next day again I would go to rehearse like I was going everywhere like I was I remember I walked up to 20 kilometers just to get a rehearsal.

Rabbil (19:47.638)

to get to a rehearsal, to meet somebody who will teach me some salsa, fancy salsa steps, who was more advanced. And for me, this was something I cannot do now, and it also forced my passion and my love and how I valued more Kizomba, yeah, and the dance in general.

Victor (20:06.446)

So, a number of things, okay? But it's great that you, well, you've got a passion for it, right? As you're speaking, I can see the passion in how you're coming across. So that's wonderful because this dance has brought you so much. And if we go right back to what you said about the dark time, is, sorry you had that time, and you mentioned your mother there as well.

and your friends that took you to salsa so you know kind of owe them a little bit in terms of saying thank you for taking me at that time because you brought me here yeah

Rabbil (20:41.213)

Well, they are my, it was my son, my little brother actually. Yeah.

Victor (20:46.722)

Yeah, beautiful to go from that to where you are now and to doing what you're doing, man. you know, this is what I don't know what it is. That's why I asked you the question. Why did Kizomba claim you? Because you've got other dancers there and they're great. I know you still love them, but there's something about this dance, with Kizomba, Semba. I don't know what it is, but anyway, it's all good. All right. Okay.

Rabbil (21:11.475)

As long as we leave it, we should not try to figure out much about its magic.

Victor (21:17.262)

Exactly, exactly. Let's just keep going, man. Let's just keep going. And obviously you mentioned some of those. So again, you mentioned Mestre Petchu there. So for people that don't know him, he's a well renowned, excellent teacher on the Kizomba scene. So obviously you've seen him dancing the rubel and you've seen the Albir and others. And you can obviously sense there's a slight difference as you're on your journey because you've got more, well, fusion. 

Rabbil (21:41.654)

He was actually one of the eye-opening moments because he made me curious about what was the difference. also, with the arrival of Facebook, I started to see more of these videos with the tricks. And I was like, yeah, this is Semba. But then he was talking, I remember it was in a festival in Italy that he was teaching in.

with Vanessa Jingapour. And he was talking about Semba, but how he was dancing, it was not similar to what it was going on. And I've always been this curious and trying to find out what is going on. So I discovered Semba, but I was like, there's something missing, you know, but, and I never stopped until I found out. Yeah.

Victor (22:35.928)

Yeah, beautiful. Beautiful, man. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right then. So, you know, if we go back again, so when you actually did start learning Kizomba, you did it without easy access to authentic Angolan teachers. So, you know, we talked about the videos that you watched, yeah? And then obviously you invested your time, your money, and you studied the culture deeply. I think you got into the culture deeply, right?

I  find out for dancers who may be similar who were limited, okay, maybe by geography. Yeah, they don't have the teachers there. got lack of teachers. What would you say after watching all those videos and knowing what you do now? Back in the day? What would you say is the right way to approach learning? Because Kizomba, you know, responsibly, maybe, you know, how do you study the technique and the history without losing its all authenticity, you know, bit of a long question, but it's

essentially how do you keep the roots grounded around Kizomba is really what I'm trying to get at.

Rabbil (23:43.317)

First of all, I will talk in my personal opinion and also my personal opinion about someone else, what I think can be useful for someone else's Kizomba journey. In my case, one thing that I came to a conclusion that was my core strength and that kept me also my reason to stay and to  eat

to improve and to be there was the link and the love I had for music.

Rabbil (24:22.258)

because I had this close feeling and attachment and like it was like an embrace whenever I was listening to Kizomba music, you know, and which wasn't the semba when I'm listening to Bachata, yes I could listen to some calm, aventura music, songs that were at the time, but it never had some that warmth and calming, soothing feeling that...

I got from Kizomba and I didn't feel like, yeah, it reminds me of something. It's something, it was more like, always like, And this love for music made me  do more on this music, express myself better on that music and even take it further and show more people that,

what we thought it was just Zouk that papa and mama would dance in the living room every morning or evening actually can be expressed something else and I later I did a lot of effort I contacted people to send me content because I also didn't put any barrier or try to create one limit myself I'm in Burundi and I don't even know where Kizomba comes from

and I'm planning to start to teach Kizomba or to dance Kizomba to be even better and to even teach it here to my friends and pals here so I don't know how I will do it I think it's a possible mission or so and I never had that. When this Kizomba enro I would say came on my path and taught us that those steps everything he was telling me

It was like, it sounded like something I would easily achieve. YouTube, it's nothing, I will do it. If I have to sacrifice 1,000 for one hour, just, yeah, for the internet I will do it because I want to do it, I want to be good, I want to do it, I  learn more. Which wasn't even normal for me, you know? At the time, 1,000 francs, was really hard, I had to...

Rabbil (26:42.152)

do a lot of things to get that 1000 just for the internet, you know. And...

Rabbil (26:50.866)

With all those difficulties I still stayed and kept going. And this is what I would say, this was my reason. And this is later after refining also my knowledge and enriching it and learning from every valuable source possible on the dancing scene. I came to a conclusion that first of all,

You need to love music.

Rabbil (27:24.806)

whether you start to dance, you started to dance one month before, one month ago or two weeks ago or last week, two days ago, it doesn't really matter. If you will not allow or you will not have this musical appreciation, let's even call it appreciation, appreciate music because the more you will listen to it, it will turn into something else. But you really need to love music.

And the most of the mistakes that we encounter most of the time as teachers from the students is that everybody, the majority, is into how can I look good? I need more steps, I need to do this. And you are focusing on the aesthetic part of the dance. Whereas before you start writing, they teach you how to go from A to read and then to write it.

one by one letter before you can make a sentence. So this part, most of us dancers, we forget it and we just  go straight to the goal, you know. I  learn how to dance and this creates programmed machine because this makes the teacher

switch into teaching and to keep the people also interested because when you teach steps you also need to have to change to vary them every time, every week when you meet them so they don't feel like they're learning something, the semba thing twice and over and over because also they don't want repetition whereas repetition is the key to perfection you know so this is the common mistake we find like the most

popular mistake of a dancer. If you don't love music...

Rabbil (29:19.944)

You should either start to love music, to listen to music, to train how to love music, or just stop dancing because there is no single dance without music and there should be no real dance lover or dancer who doesn't love music, who doesn't understand music, who doesn't really like music. So music is the key for me.

Victor (29:43.32)

So be able to enjoy what's directing your body to move, basically, which is the music, which is what we call the master, right? So you said something interesting there. You said if you don't love music, don't dance.

Rabbil (29:50.483)

Yes.

Rabbil (29:59.812)

Exactly, it's two things. Either you train to start to it or just don't dance. There is no middle way. It's either one or the other.

Victor (30:11.47)

Okay. What would you say to some people who challenge that and they say, well, I don't necessarily love music, but I like to dance, you know, I can, I can do that. What would you say to them?

Rabbil (30:12.454)

Yeah.

Rabbil (30:22.077)

Then don't expect to be good in the dance. You can dance. You can dance to every sound the DJ wants, but then you should dance to it without any respectful structure, any specific structure or base. Just learn it. Dance as a human body moves, you know? Like that tapping dance that you do in the morning to release the pressure, everything.

You don't have any routine, it's just you go by nature and sad things. So you don't need to learn. If you don't really love the music or you don't... but you like dancing, it's okay. You are okay, but don't expect that you will attend one class and you should expect to be good after one class and the teacher has... if the teacher didn't make you be good after that class, he's not a good teacher, no. The problem should not be... that problem should not be...

Blamed on the teacher. Yeah.

Victor (31:18.988)

Yeah, so you've to that passion for the music to really excel in the dancing if you really  become good, basically. That's what you're saying. Okay, all right. So we hear it all the time. Music is the master. We've got to love the music. well, most of us do. Right. So that's actually an easy win.

Rabbil (31:35.987)

Yeah, well there is there is loving music and loving music, you know what I mean? Because it's very important also to know that

you will get an easy answer. Yeah, I love music. I listen to music every day, every morning, but also you need to filter, kind of filter, have like standards. Nowadays, especially, we are facing a very challenging moment in the music industry. We have the AI music, we that music that is taking over everywhere and...

People who some of the people who don't really pay attention they will hardly even realize it they are AI because It takes you time. It also takes you time You need to know how music sound how proper music sound and how an AI produce song sound and If you don't have that type of approach or that curiosity Everything will just sound like another song. I like that mellow voice and it's like

Doll singing and so on and you know and this it's a good thing it's innovation for technology but at the semba time it harms them for some for the non-curious people it will it will take away from them the chance of experimenting the real music and unconsciously the ignorance or this

lack of care about that, it will keep them away from knowing. And this is where you have a moment like what I have sometimes. When I enter, for example, in someone's car, will every time try to be the DJ in the car. So I will connect my phone, you know. And when we play a song and I was like, I would be like, oh, this is one of my all time faves. I hope you like it, you know it.

Rabbil (33:46.928)

Everybody knows this song. This is my sentence like everybody knows this song, you know, and I paid And I don't see a reaction at the beginning of the song and I'm like, okay, I get it, know and after the song we'll be like I Didn't know this song. It's it's really nice. And I'm like really this is like a very Mainstream I can say accessible, you know, and because I

I know there are songs that are not the plate of everybody. You need to have a certain music taste or level to like that music, you know. And there is no harm not liking it. And there is no harm. But for example, if you tell me you love Kizomba music but you don't know Splash, you know.

and don't know the band Splash and if you say Grace Evora they will be like yeah but yeah I think yeah Rendez vous, Rendez vous yes Rendez vous is one of the hits but you know there are some amazing songs by Grace Evora and Splash and so on and we will just go for the new the current the last five let's say three to five years

Trendy songs that will be mostly listened by the the current generation and this is the limitation you get When you are you have no curiosity and you have no This hunger for musical of like that comes from musical of you know If you love music you will always try to find something new or to even find a different tonality from what you are listening already and this will get you more we just search a playlist from somebody and

I didn't know this song from Bandar Malaviria. I heard this from this. I heard this from that. And this is what we, without realizing, will also be seeing. You may not take so many classes, but when you will be dancing with those few movements, like fundamental movements, the way you will even express them will be different because the link you have with the music

Rabbil (36:10.342)

is not the semba as everybody, you know. So this is what for me makes a good dancer for me, you know. Yeah.

Victor (36:18.798)

beautiful, beautiful yeah and I think there's a lot that you mentioned there as well and I think you're definitely right about appreciation for the music I think a lot of people well many people have been dancing for a long time well maybe I'm speaking for myself but you you start out with Kizomba just like you were saying with the Albir and at that time and Nelson Freitas and

Kaysha, all these people, but it's Ghetto-zouk, right? You've bought into Kizomba, but it's not actually Kizomba really that you're listening to. It's Ghetto-zouk, which is fine, because we love the music, you it's great. But then over time, you start to appreciate different sounds, then you start to understand Kizomba, music, instruments, percussion, sounds, semba.

pace, all of these different things. then, yeah, so when you go out, it's more, it's more richer and you just learn more. So I totally get what you're saying there. 100%, 100%, 100%, man. Okay, okay. Well, let's talk about your event. Okay. Speaking of music, right? You have an event called

Rabbil (37:09.874)

No.

Rabbil (37:23.4)

Ha!

Victor (37:27.918)

Kizomba Treat. Yes. So this event happens in Brussels. Yes. Let me say that again. This event happens in Belgium. In Belgium. Okay. What is Kizomba Treat about, Rabbil, and how long has it been running for? So give us a flavour of your event.

Rabbil (37:31.282)

Yes.

Rabbil (37:36.499)

It happened in Belgium in 11, 15 minutes.

In love and yes.

Yeah.

Rabbil (37:57.491)

Kizomba Treat is an event that is actually, it's literally a part of me that I put out there and I chose to share with the people because that was the only way I could be happy that actually I did my part for the community.

And it's an event that was born from what happens most of the time. Some people even ran away from it. It's me commenting about the music in parties.

Victor (38:42.958)

So you were commenting about music back then, right?

Rabbil (38:47.986)

Yeah, I still do it even now and some people they run away from that topic because they just  remain in Switzerland. No opinion, didn't say anything, I didn't react, so I listened only. But for me, I believe that it's very important. It's something I cannot help.

When I go to a party, especially to an event, I travel, I give away my whole weekend. And I go there mainly... I may not have even good dancers or whatever, I don't care. But the music is the only thing that will define that weekend.

Rabbil (39:46.14)

for me in the first place.

And when you tell me that the music...

Rabbil (39:55.283)

is the last thing we need to focus on who is there, the artist part and whatever, then we lose the whole purpose. And sometimes then I comment, I say, man, because we used to travel, we usually travel from Belgium to dance in the Netherlands for one hour and a half, we drive to go and one hour and half back. So three hours ride to just for a party that is starting at nine until three, and then you have to drive three more hours and...

It's a lot of effort and the next day maybe you may go to work and the next day you may have an appointment or you just give a whole weekend. You say I'm going there to dance from Friday until Sunday and on Monday morning I will go back home and I will start also to work and so on. And then I would go there and...

Man, I get disappointed so much and I'm like, yeah, how come this guy, especially I know this guy can play what happened. I understand that every DJ now that I'm also DJing, I understand that you can never have, you can never be in your best shape every time. But there are some times that it's too easy. It's too easy. Like.

I've heard you maybe in my previous booking when I was teaching in a festival or in an event and you were there playing music and then we suddenly meet in another event where I'm just simply having fun also and I will hear the least version of what you can do and I'm like okay let's say today is not good but the whole weekend it will be like that then you will hear me talk.

This is the moment I will talk and this is how Kizomba Treat was born. were from a party with who is now my business partner Lato.

Rabbil (41:55.123)

This is how we were confounded, were from a party and we were complaining. Like it's crazy how people cannot at least play the minimum of the music. Okay, don't play me those bangers that I expect. Like crazy, at least play me decent music, know. No one. It's crazy, you choose to go old school, go old school. are plenty of old school songs, know, that classics that brings the smile on the face, you know.

even some unknown ones. So like, you know, I'm really tired. I really can't help. And I think we should do, I should do something. And my friend was like, yeah, actually, why not do it? Let's do it. I was like, what? I said, yeah, let's do the, event. He said, listen, let's go call me. First, we need to think about, we have, we need to have a venue. need to have.

a place and to know that we can do it and a concept and so on. What would we do as an event, as a party or something? And he was like, yeah, we can do a party. yeah, we did. I no, no, no, I don't  do another party. I don't  do another party. We've got enough parties. So if we do something, I would like to do like an event that will be the reunion of the music lovers.

And that reunion should be like if I'm rich or if I have a bee, I was gifted a big house with a backyard and something to invite people just to come on my backyard and have spent together the weekend dancing, eating and repeating just like that to good music with every type of like the diversity possible that can be that has been.

exist in the world of Kizomba.

Rabbil (43:56.466)

and period, maybe a couple of classes, but classes with meaning, not just standard classes. And I think I have a place, because I had a place where I taught the first time I started to teach in Belgium, it was in Ghand And I was like, I have a place, I have a venue, and I know those guys, will be keen to host us there.

We just, and I have colleagues, artists, we just invite them, I know the DJs, and we have them and we make our event. And this is how Kizomba Treat was born. And we say, okay, what's the name? He we need to find something not complicated, something that will just tell the idea of the event by saying it, you know.

And I don't want so much, I don't  go and search a Kimbundu name, I don't  go and search a Burundian name, I don't  search, I just want something that will be raw and easy to understand. It's a Kizomba treat. Like a treat. I was like, yeah, a treat. That's a Kizomba treat, yes. Like a treat where you have like a treat, like you treat people the proper way, you welcome them home and it's a treat. You give them a treat and that was what I want.

and I was like, Himi was just on the adrenaline of doing it. He was like, yeah, let's go. Everything I was saying, was like, let's go, let's go. And we were like, OK, let's go, let's do it. So this is how it was born. And then we said, Kizomba Treat it is. And I had no clue about organizing or anything. There was no business plan. There was no

Projects, I don't know managing or marketing or whatever it was Everything was just raw. It was a Kizomba treat. I announced the date I put the line-up out the semba moment. There was no one by one and after that I put the artists I presented I gave them the flyers and everybody came and

Rabbil (46:09.776)

In the last week of the event, before the event, I realized that I had lot of things to do. I needed volunteers, I needed this, I needed that. And I was like, how am I going to do that? And I didn't have that in mind. And suddenly everybody I was calling, I was talking, they were like, yeah, actually I have a friend, I have this. And we tell them and we come, the volunteer team was built like this and there was this friend.

Lady also dancer, Julian Muts. At the time I had just met her in dancing and she, I said, know what, I would like to ask you to come.

to be part of my team and help me with the volunteering and organizing and managing the event because I knew she was doing some things like that in festivals and I had realized that it was not going to be possible and I had she came and the first edition it was I'm going to say it was a mess but that mess I'm happy were the only ones who felt it

because everybody who was there, they were like, this is the best event of the year. This is unmatched, know, like amazing. I was like, actually, literally I did nothing special. And I was so happy that I had my friends there and I had DJs that I knew, some were my friends most of the time. Actually, all of them, were my friends and people I knew. And I invited them to come.

They came, they did. I gave them what I had to give them. I told them, listen, I'm not going to give you any briefing of playing three Kizomba on three semba three, whatever. I just want you to play music for the people, play for the people and be as diverse as possible.

Rabbil (48:11.217)

and they just went there and did it.

And most of the artists were also unknown artists, like not famous. I didn't start with how like many of the events start with big names so you can catch the attention of the people. No, it was an event with one of the ugliest flyer, funniest flyer and... And yeah, I had nothing crazy about it. Only I knew that whoever will come...

If there will be 10, they will leave saying that we just did something different. This is what I wanted. And it was a heavy hit on me in the first edition because we didn't know and there were lot of unexpected and planned expenses and plans that were happened in the event and that made me say this will be the last edition, the first and last. But I had said it already on Saturday that

I'm not going through this because I  it for the people but financially I cannot pull it and I have no sponsor or anything and I cannot keep losing money like this and I didn't even expect to lose any money then. So, and on Sunday, on Saturday I said that in the afternoon and then I had an

artist presentation on Saturday where I couldn't talk because after like five seconds talking I couldn't talk I burst into tears because of joy and tiredness that I had for the last month I didn't sleep almost at all and the whole weekend also I didn't sleep for starting from Wednesday it was up night and day running around buying stuff food

Rabbil (50:14.093)

and coordinating with everybody, sound system, renting cars and so on to the point that I didn't even go to cut my hair at all. So I was like this hair, beard and everything and...

And it was too much and I had managed to have an afternoon nap on Saturday and I took a shower and I came then in the party and this is when I had to do the presentation and I burst into tears and I couldn't talk, I left somebody. Then I was like, no, no, no, no, I don't cry in front of people, you know, and you know this voice but I couldn't hold it because it wasn't something, it was just...

natural and like that and that's

kept ringing in my head like Why did I cry? Why did they put myself into this? Why they have to you know, but then I realized that it was It was just The results that the giving I was getting back actually It's like I was telling my body and my feelings my soul was like, you know, actually you should be happy it happened we did it it's good and

the universe and the people were there and it was, I think that was the purest moment of my dancing journey, you know.

Rabbil (51:46.46)

Yeah. Yeah, it was the purest. And then on Sunday, I was like, OK, now I'm kicking everybody out after the social and nobody wanted to leave on Sunday social after one Sunday social. was packed. And they took drums. They started to beat drums and we want one more, one more, one more, one more. And yeah, I said, OK, we'll see. There will be no one more, definitely. But then.

I had already people sending us money for next edition to book their passes and we were forced actually to do it because we had people who wanted to do it and we were like why stop it if people are now wanting maybe we recover what we lost and it may be a birth of something special.

And I was like, yeah, let's take a break and we can do it next in the following year. We take one year break and so on. But it took me the moment to get home to just say, actually, I'm contacting the designer to make next editions flyer because I like, you know, there is a saying home. I don't know how I can translate this, man. It's it's really.

It's saying, it's like a proverb that says like, you know when you cook beans.

You have this juice from the beans. So we usually give that juice to cows so they can get more pound and more meat and more proteins. So we have a saying that you don't drink that juice, that beans juice cold. You have to drink it warm, lukewarm.

Rabbil (53:51.696)

for its properties and the taste. that was what came in my head. was like, you know, if this has to be able to stay alive, it's now or never. So I was like, okay. And then it was born and the second edition was amazing. And I always kept the same policy. I don't...

Rabbil (54:18.299)

change anything because the point was music and I kept the standard of music and until now this is what I believe that still is lacking because it was my belief at the moment and it still is we still lack events where music is the priority and not music just as at the first degree just music like cliche music because there is

party, real music, party music and also the cliché music party. And I wanted an event where every generation would find itself in it.

Rabbil (55:03.695)

Yeah.

Rabbil (55:09.06)

No.

Victor (55:35.44)

interesting because obviously different organizers have different requirements. Okay, so you're it's great that it worked out for you and What edition are you on now of because I'm a treat. What number is it?

Rabbil (55:47.792)

So now it's the fifth edition this year in May on 22nd, 25th of May.

Victor (55:53.902)

So from the first one where you said it was a disaster, well in your mind, we're at number five, right? Okay, so obviously doing something well and I've heard many good things about the festival myself as well. So yeah, keep doing it. One thing I wanted to ask you though because you said something about, I can't remember how you put it, you said classes with purpose, not standard classes. So talk to me a bit more about what you mean by that.

Rabbil (56:18.372)

Yes.

Rabbil (56:23.151)

So, with purpose I mean I call every teacher, for example, personally. I say, listen, I know you are booked, are teachers, and I put you there because I believe there's something...

you can do that, can propose the people from your perspective that would be different. Yeah? And I don't  change that. However, I would not like it to be another, this class to be another signature workshop like every others. So, I would like you to give, because I have no, we have no levels in Kizomba Treat There is no advanced, intermediate or whatever. Every class is open level.

Even the ones that we call master classes, they are master classes that are open level that everybody can go and everybody can learn from. So if you  learn more or to get more, they will be different. Every class is different from the other. And it focuses on something that is present in the dance.

I don't want them to... I tell them I'm not going to keep you from your creativity. I would like you to use your creativity to give people what can improve their dancing. Share that creativity. Share those secrets. So if you will have to focus on one thing in the whole one hour, I'm all good.

But make sure that one thing is something that should be focused on. that will... If 60 people that will be in the class don't like it, at least there will be 10 people that will be like, yeah, actually this thing is one of the missing, was one of the missing parts in my journey. And this is all that matters. So I don't ask to convince everybody or to cut it to everybody that they...

Rabbil (58:33.025)

and expect that everybody will like your class or will learn something from your class. At least there should be a little amount of people that will leave that class saying XYZ, they were amazing. I like their class because of this and that. And that's it.

Victor (58:51.414)

great because it's great to hear and obviously you know we go there we're going to get something different and I think that's always great for people to start thinking about how they can do things differently hence why you're doing so great and then the other thing Rabbil is we've talked to what we touched on this before you and I we talk about we go to festivals okay or we go to dance let's just say we go to dance right and normally

Victor (59:33.94)

Sometimes this can be a bit of a problem. And when I say problem, I mean in the fact that, you know, if you have a heavy side where one is more heavily geared, where you have more women than men, it just means that people aren't gonna necessarily enjoy that experience as much because they might not get a dance, right? Or they get very few dances.

And I know that one of the things that you do is make a conscious effort in your festival or your event to kind of address this imbalance. So can you talk to us about what it is that you do and also why that's important for your event at Kizomba Treat as well?

Rabbil (01:00:17.968)

So for me this is very important because this is situation that is hitting every event nowadays. And I think as an organizer now there are several ways of facing it but it all depends also on the organizers and their purpose and their goals and reasons to organize it.

and also the reality behind the dancing. So first of all, this is what I was talking about. When I came and I got to be able to see Angolan parties, like mostly, not even, I'm going to skip the word Angolan, I will say Pallop parties.

Rabbil (01:01:11.629)

People like the ladies that were there most of the time, also you have more ladies than men in parties in Europe, except in Angola where I was there, it was different. You have more ladies there and some ladies are sitting or some ladies are dancing. However, whether they are dancing with a partner or there is nobody to dance with them and the DJ plays a song they like, they will not remain seated or get this...

angry feeling that nobody is inviting them. Actually, they will stand up, even make a circle themselves and just enjoy that song because it's a song that resonates with them and remind them something or it's their era music and so on. And this will come back to what we talked before. We mentioned about loving music. If I attend a festival or I attend a party. Yes, it's a dancing party, but after all, they put social dancing.

Alright? And we know that Kizomba parties are not meant to be like marathon of dancing non-stop. But with the festivals coming up, people have built this high expectation with time that whenever they go to festivals, they should dance non-stop, should dance X. There is actually no limit or no standard. It should be like from third.

to not tired. So if I didn't get tired from dancing, then it's not good. If one of my favourite dancers didn't invite me that night, or I didn't get to dance with her or him, then that night was not a good party because, yeah, the dancers were not even inviting each other. You know what I mean? So, and that...

those personal opinions that were coming from personal disappointments and this lack of like forgetting what is the essence of the social dancing. The social dancing is a place you go, you sit, you have a drink, you meet new people, you talk with already friends, with the existing friends and you will get to dance with somebody that you know, you don't know or someone will invite you but

Rabbil (01:03:35.296)

Regardless of how many dances you will have, you will have an amazing time because you will talk, will dance even with your friends and so on just there, you know. And we have lost that thing in the dancing scene in Europe, you know. And this also comes with the music appreciation. The less the music is present in people's life and they just save that moment of music in one...

for when they will be traveling to festivals.

Rabbil (01:04:09.537)

it becomes more like a plan for workout. When I say I will be working the whole week and my weekend is when I will catch up on my undone workout sessions. I will be like... And if anything may happen from the other side, I will easily get disappointed because I had high expectations.

and whereas it's something natural, dancing should be natural.

Rabbil (01:04:47.982)

I will ask you a question. For example, now you are a follower, alright? Would you be... Yeah, you are a follower. Although I know you are a leader, but a good leader also follows. behind every good leader, there is a good follower. And I can't argue with that, you know?

Rabbil (01:05:11.266)

Would you rather prefer to be invited by somebody who has no single...

Rabbil (01:05:26.734)

Who doesn't share, who is not in the semba direction as you, who doesn't  be a friend, who has no friendly link or attachment with you and who just come there to invite you just to spend those three songs with you, to dance with you and just leave. Because this is like a routine, you know? Or you would like to go to a party where you will be with your friends, you will sit

You have your drink, chill, some snacks and music and you enjoy the song, the DJ is playing and then all of you see one of those guys that you've met at the event or somebody invites you and you come, you share like, I don't know, five, six songs, I don't care, laughing, enjoying and then sit. And would you prefer that?

as a party or a party where you have random or people who have who  share nothing just than the physical, the aesthetic part of the dance. Just dance with you, have dances, move, take another dancer, move, take another dancer like that, like taxi dancers. Let me use the word. Would you prefer that or you would prefer a more natural dance? Evening.

Victor (01:06:50.53)

No, yeah, absolutely. I prefer the more natural, where it's more nicer. You have familiarity with the people. It's nicer because they come over to you like, okay, great. We know each other. I think that's going to be much nicer in my personal opinion. So that's what I would prefer, yeah, if I was a follower.

Rabbil (01:07:07.982)

Yeah, so this is exactly the mentality that I would like to share with people at Kizomba Treat So the point is there will never be a perfect ratio, even if you have 50-50. There will still be moments where not everybody will be on the dance floor and you will never have a dance floor with all the 50 % on the dance floor. It's never going to be possible. And this should be something that people should understand.

But also I understand there is exaggeration. If there are people who are sitting, only occupying the existing chairs and no second line in front of them waiting to dance, so there should be no problem. But when there are two lines of ladies waiting, then there is a problem there in the situation.

We're trying to, for example, with us, trying to regulate that by stopping, for example, the passes for ladies. We give an amount of passes for ladies. And if another lady wants to come, we have to come as a couple pass to come with somebody. So like this, that amount of passes that we had prepared is there. know that these people will not be sitting.

for the whole weekend because there were two rows or three rows in front of them waiting to also dance.

Rabbil (01:08:44.782)

And we have to admit that nowadays also people will easily...

talk about something behind the doors, but instead of talking directly, giving it as a feedback to the concerned people. And also the concerned organizers, some of them are not even keen to hear those type of, receive it. I understand that it makes it also hard for the participant parts to approach the organizer easily.

express their feelings. Yeah, and for me there is no problem and for example this year we are doing our best to make sure that already last year it was good. Although it's never perfect but we don't want it to be perfect because we know it's an impossible mission but we want it to be fair for everybody and to be more pleasant.

I should be in parties but also we need cooperation from the people they need to have this understanding and to know that you go to a dance event because you  have good time and good time should not solely depend on how many dances you got in the weekend there is more than just dancing in the weekend with people yeah so

and that will be what we'll be sharing this year.

Rabbil (01:10:38.593)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:10:47.592)

I've heard similar situations and I don't think that will ever be a case for Kizomba Treat. Because also there's this thing when they say, yeah, I didn't dance much, I said, what do mean? didn't dance at all the whole weekend? Yeah, but it was only my friends and people I know, these people I don't know, the people I don't know, didn't invite me. I said, you see?

You are missing the point. You've danced, but you had even because you... There is a saying that says that satisfaction of a need creates another desire, creates the desire of another need. Once you were hungry and you are fed,

Rabbil (01:11:41.665)

The next step is like, yeah, but I would like something sweet or I would have wanted something else, maybe a salad on the side because to complete my meal. Whereas appreciate, be grateful. You know, be grateful first for what you've lived. This is how, if you cannot appreciate and value, be aware of being the moment and just value what you can get.

Even when you will get more, there is no certainty that you will be happy.

You know?

And this is the nature of a human, but we're trying to do our best. I hardly promise people, but I promise that the ones who will be lucky to be there.

Rabbil (01:12:32.823)

we'll talk about it on spot.

Victor (01:12:36.696)

let's just say yes, looking forward to that one. 100%. So okay, no, and it's great to get inside information, well, just knowledge around or insights, I should say rather about how you approach the festival in terms of what you're wanting. So you're talking about music being the driver and then, know, differences in the classes and then this, well, making the balance ratio right where you can. I think those three things are gonna, you know,

Rabbil (01:13:12.329)

And just don't approach it as a festival, just approach it as you're coming a weekend away from home and you're coming to spend it in music and meeting new people or just people you know hanging around at some friend's backyard or maybe a friend's venue who has a big ballroom and that's it. Exactly.

Victor (01:13:33.996)

Like you in Angola, the way it was intended in Angola.

Rabbil (01:13:38.381)

Exactly. You just sit, you will have chairs, will have tables, you will sit, you are not forced to stand the whole evening talking to people and just every moment of the event.

Victor (01:13:56.856)

Yeah. No, beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. So one of the things you talk about is authenticity, Rabil. Obviously you study culture as well. But we know Kizomba is so big, okay? Big around the world. And obviously around the world you've got fusions, you've got trends. People  have fame and all of this stuff, okay? So with all of this stuff that's going on and...

Rabbil (01:14:04.811)

Yeah.

Victor (01:14:23.278)

trying to be authentic. What do you think that we're losing and what are we gaining currently on the Kizomba scene with all of this stuff that's happening?

Rabbil (01:14:25.186)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:14:32.077)

For me, I go from the part that there is no losing.

I think the people who may not be anymore in love with Kizomba and would switch to something else or would stop, those people, regardless of how good teachers would have been there, they would have left. However, talking about the growth and the decreasing of the dancing scene and what is going on, is that the ones who are in there now,

what should be given to them, why there is no growth from those who are still in the scene. It's because for me, authenticity comes with a price.

And it's not made for everyone. This is something that I got to understand. Because I was frustrated at some moment, but I stopped being frustrated. I understood that this is not made for everyone to be authentic. Because it takes principles.

It takes you to let go what are your biggest triggers or something, temptations and so on. Because of something that you choose something to value, to prioritize something more original, you know. And for me, being authentic...

Rabbil (01:16:12.531)

in Kizomba for example, never wanting to be in everything we teach. We are authentic in everything we teach because this is also a way of being true to ourselves.

And I cannot give anything bigger to that culture or to where that culture came from.

And I'm not anymore very disappointed when I see some fellow African brothers teaching Urban kiz or not even caring that because it's their choice. And I am okay, I'm totally fine with them making it because everybody has the right to do so. However, how can we preserve what we have?

How can we make it more alive, revive it? Is, first of all, those who  be teachers.

They need to have standards, the proper ones. But unfortunately we are not there because you have social media that is an enemy and also the friend of the growth for authenticity. Through social media you can promote authenticity. Through social media authenticity can die.

Rabbil (01:17:47.286)

So nowadays we go with what looks good, what sells. Instagram able, know, TikTok. And this for the ones who use those tools, those social medias, those platforms, they have the right to direct well, to guide the community or to get it lost completely.

And this is what is happening nowadays. How can you tell me that somebody who took, let's say, even one year, Kizomba classes, right? And then will attend an amateur dance contest. And then he will not even be part of the top five.

and he or she will start after that contest amateur contest they will start announcing and launching themselves as teachers now that they are ready for teaching and because the society is now seeking for this clown personality

against the real personalities because people don't  invest, people want easy things, that, friendship that come easily. Yeah, he, this guy is cool, she, loves everybody, he is there every time and yeah, and this defines a cool person, you know, and from that cool personality or...

how smiling and whatever will define you also as a teacher. yeah, you're starting to teach? I'm coming, regardless of.

Rabbil (01:19:52.182)

There is no moment of, okay, where did this person learn from?

Victor (01:19:58.808)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:19:59.284)

Let me ask that person, who was your mentor? How long did you train? Because you may do a teacher's training last month, it doesn't make you a teacher right after there is a time of progress until you are like confirmed teacher.

And this lack of awareness, it became a standard and it became like a syndrome, I like to say.

and it became this I call it the syndrome of an imposter the imposter syndrome people they

They will shamelessly stand out and start to give even private lessons, not even group classes, private lessons.

from nowhere and when you imagine it from a teacher's perspective you're like do you realize the power

Rabbil (01:21:06.036)

of the harm you are causing, are doing by that. Because you yourself, you know training, you have no knowledge. And then you training somebody and then that somebody is following you and you expect that that dancing scene will grow? I'm sorry, we ain't going anywhere. And this will come to a result of the lack of numbers, the lack of people in workshops, in classes. Yeah.

It's about dancing all around because everybody, if you will have those friends, they will just come because there is no more quality. Standard. I like that person, I will just go. Victor is so quiet, he's so cool. He knows what he says every time I will go to his class. Why don't you dig? Why don't you get to know Victor? Hey, Victor, actually I saw you were starting to teach. Yeah, can you tell me more about

your classes, what it is about, why, how did you start, where did you get trained? Yeah, because I would like to really start dancing Kizomba or starting dancing salsa if you will be touching salsa, you know? There is no that anymore. That curiosity doesn't exist anymore. My friends are like, I saw my friend like this video, so this video, this guy is good. I'm gonna like that.

and this goes vice versa and this will go to organizers, organizers will move from

prioritizing quality teachers to trending teachers.

Rabbil (01:22:47.797)

So they will buy Instagram views. They will invite Instagram views.

So this makes it very easy. Everybody who can get their numbers on Instagram, well, they are everywhere.

And the real teachers who...

didn't know that they have now to sell themselves on social media so they can be teaching because they come from the era that teachers were invited to teach because of their knowledge and their experience. They will be disappearing.

Rabbil (01:23:27.943)

And the new generation doesn't care about the old generation. They don't talk to the old generation. Some of them don't even know them. There are people who don't even know who is Mestre Petchu, for example.

Victor (01:23:39.926)

Exactly, that's why I wanted to say his name earlier so we can introduce him to people that know him.

Rabbil (01:23:42.601)

Yeah, you know there are people who don't know him and they consider themselves teaching or dancing Kizomba, know, in Europe, you know.

And this is a very big problem. really invite the Kizomba community, the dancers. Yes, you need to be, you  be a teacher, please don't burn steps. For the sake of the dance, there is nothing that urge you to put yourself out there, you know.

Rabbil (01:24:23.272)

It's a supreme responsibility and people may just take it as an opportunity to be seen, be on the podium, to do this, to travel around, but it's not a big responsibility.

Victor (01:24:35.17)

Yeah, yeah. And we're gonna have to talk about this one again, because this one is definitely we're going to have to get you back and some other people on. And this is one that, yeah, yeah, because that's going to be a great conversation. And the thing about the conversation is the point of it is what can we do to make it better? That's the point, yeah? So that's what we're gonna try and set up at some point.

Rabbil (01:24:42.567)

Yeah, I'm more than open. I'm really looking forward actually to that. Yeah. Yeah.

Rabbil (01:25:02.345)

Yeah, okay, I should not answer to this, or I answer to this.

Victor (01:25:08.5)

No, no, I'm just saying when you come back, that's what we're going to be.

Rabbil (01:25:10.845)

Yeah, actually that would be very nice, actually. This is really nice.

Victor (01:25:15.374)

Yeah, yeah. So, anyway, I'm just conscious of time now, Rabbil. So we've got like 10 minutes, because you've got to get going soon, right?

Rabbil (01:25:22.379)

Yeah, we can have a little bit more bits. Let's call it a 20 minutes maybe.

Victor (01:25:29.006)

Okay, I'm gonna, I got like a couple more questions really. I took some out just simply because of the flow and the length and stuff, but I think this is okay. I mean, how are you enjoying it so far? Okay.

Rabbil (01:25:33.247)

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah,

Rabbil (01:25:40.531)

I'm enjoying it very well, I'm good. It's as natural as I didn't even expect. my God. I didn't even realize one hour passing. We just had already... Yeah. Yeah, kick in those questions, I think.

Victor (01:25:46.963)

I know, right?

I know, this is what people say to me. All right.

Rabbil (01:26:01.191)

If yes.

Victor (01:26:06.008)

Do you mind me talking about your wife on this one? Are you okay with that? Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about her. So, okay, Rabbil. So your wife, okay. Your wife dances. Okay. And she approached you as a student. Naughty man. I'm just joking. But anyway, anyway, so that's how you met, right? So how has that partnership gone?

Rabbil (01:26:08.521)

Yeah, yeah, no problem. No problem. No problem.

Rabbil (01:26:16.768)

Mm.

Rabbil (01:26:26.091)

Ha ha ha ha!

Rabbil (01:26:41.643)

We work around each other, we found balance. It's been a very interesting journey, like, from its beginning, from me being the mentor and having my student or something, let's say, and to becoming my partner and my wife and it's...

It was the most challenging part was me from switching from I to we. It was a very interesting part because I learned how that...

In partnership, I'm not anymore alone and I have to be aware of...

where my words are going and how they were impacted. Whereas before as a solo teacher I was just talking alone and also inclusivity, including her in it, not making her feel suppressed in the class. To find that balance and it's...

It shaped me into a more aware human being. And even around people, I'm more aware compared to how it used to be before. So it has been a very constructive journey and a bright journey so far until now.

Victor (01:28:35.278)

Fantastic, fantastic. And you teach together a lot, right? Pretty much.

Rabbil (01:28:36.265)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:28:40.106)

Yes, I have no other partner. I either teach alone or I teach with her.

Victor (01:28:45.186)

Yep. Fantastic. Beautiful. Beautiful, man. Okay. So we talked a little bit about festivals, you know, your history. I  find out from you, because you've been dancing for so long now, remind us of how many years you've been, well, actually remind us of how many years you've been dancing and teaching.

Rabbil (01:29:06.228)

So I started dancing in 2012.

Rabbil (01:29:12.966)

Yeah, teaching, I started teaching back home four months after I started dancing. Yeah, exactly. That's a very long time. That's a very long time, but then you need to understand the scenes. First of all, even if you would be a teacher in Africa, for example, in Angola, it doesn't take you ages to be a teacher because the way Africans learn

Victor (01:29:19.822)

That's a long time. I'm joking.

Rabbil (01:29:43.464)

doesn't require you much as how it would require a teacher to teach here in Europe.

Victor (01:29:50.518)

And what's the reason for that? So people just clear because we've talked about, know, we've talked a lot about making sure people are doing the right thing with. So the people listening now thinking, OK, well, you've just said that. So how can how can this be? If that makes sense.

Rabbil (01:29:53.31)

So.

Rabbil (01:29:59.038)

Yes.

Rabbil (01:30:03.21)

Yeah.

So how can this be is the following. Is that Africans?

learning African and African dance, even other dances, it will not be the same as Europeans because first of all it may be across the continent that the dance comes from. For example in my case Kizomba comes from Angola in West Africa compared to where I am, I'm in the East. So there is no link from those two except Congo.

Rabbil (01:30:44.926)

Yeah. And Congo is the only link we have to Angola. But the part of Congo that we are connected to is far away from Angola, is on the other side of Angola.

And this makes it easier for us because we grow listening to those music. And when we dance, we have this ease to show you a movement and you just repeat it.

Rabbil (01:31:20.666)

Here in Europe if I do that because I did that, I was put into a category of I cannot teach.

because whereas home, I would come with the sequence of I don't know how many eights and I will just repeat that choreography to them and we will just go through it like into three pieces and we'll be done. Here I will have to explain how many degrees my foot is turned and where is my weight. It's on the left and I'm going to bring that weight back through my hip. I will transfer it to my right.

so I can do a proper balance. You understand? Whereas back home is balance, balance and that's it. And when they will be doing the movement, they will just repeat the word, you know, balance, balance and that's all.

You know, and this is why if you would be

good at repeating already you could lead a group by repeating to show others because literally I would not call it teaching I was showing people how to dance

Rabbil (01:32:38.364)

I was not teaching them.

Victor (01:32:38.446)

I'm just laughing because it's interesting how we've got there, but that's just the way it is, know? That's it, you know? Yeah, that's how you have to explain things in a different way. Yeah.

Rabbil (01:32:43.592)

Yeah, that's the way it is. Yeah, exactly. And even if you may ask today, there are some palop dancers that you may ask, can you tell me how you do this? Why you do this? They cannot tell you because they don't know. It comes from the feeling. Yeah, you know, and this is the semba any African in their dance. There are things you can ask them. They cannot.

Explained because it's just felt and they will show you I can show you so I did Okay, but can you break it down and tell me how like the muscles and what we don't know You know So and this is why to teach you need to get trained how to teach So when I arrived here in Europe, I was trained how to teach because

I realized that what I believed to be doing as teaching was not teaching.

And even when I went back home and taught them differently, I saw how it was on them. It changed their perspective and they are more like awake and aware of what they are doing than just having their brains only on catching every step you are doing.

Victor (01:33:57.528)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:34:18.6)

Yeah, it's very important because I got trained when I go to Europe. I invested a lot of time in getting trained and money as well, and getting trained to have what I have as methodology today or as knowledge as well. So this is what I invite the wannabe teachers to do.

Rabbil (01:34:45.801)

Attending festivals will not make you a teacher because you attended 50 workshops from 50 different teachers in festivals because you end up learning how to teach there.

They're like boot camps, know, you just go there, it's like seminars. It's what you will learn because I know there are people who come with their phones, they keep them here, they don't even follow the class, they just film the class and they believe that by filming that you are having your own training or how they teach but it's not the case because it changes, it varies from one teacher to another how they structure their class.

Yeah, so you need to really, they need to really learn and to get trained. I invite everybody who  be a teacher to get trained.

Victor (01:35:40.332)

Well, you heard it here, everyone here. I it from a great teacher. So thank you. Okay. So, I mean, you know, that's great advice. So I guess the last question almost last is kind of  ask you to be a good teacher. I know you just talked about some stuff there.

Rabbil (01:35:42.427)

Yeah. Yeah.

Victor (01:36:01.612)

Sorry, actually, to be a good dancer, let's do that instead. So to be a good dancer, coming from you as a teacher, just to everybody listening and watching, what would you say are the fundamentals that people need to learn to be a good dancer? And that even means being a good, a better dancer as a teacher as well.

Rabbil (01:36:06.887)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:36:22.258)

Yeah, yeah, because it's very important. There is one thing that people mostly confuse, get confused at is if somebody is a teacher, they don't by default become good dancers.

There are great teachers who aren't good dancers. Who aren't great dancers, let's say. You may be decent dancer because you cannot be a good teacher and you cannot dance, but I have seen some. So it's very important that people get to differentiate that. Because even the ones who  be teachers, they just  be teachers to have that status of being a teacher.

for the status and consideration they will get from the fact that they are teaching.

When people know that you're a teacher they, I'm sorry I just started to dance three months. I simply wanted to share dance with you. don't really, it doesn't really matter to me. I don't care whether you started last week. I just wanna dance with you. This is what matters, you know? And this should be in every minds of everybody. Secondly,

Rabbil (01:37:38.363)

I said about music in the beginning, but you may be, for some people, they may be unlucky to have their body weight may not receive because we need to be aware that there are some possibilities for people who may not receive the rhythm in their bodies or they may not, yeah, you know, don't fight with yourself. It's normal, you know, and you can train, but as I say, there's nothing that is

Victor (01:37:57.292)

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Rabbil (01:38:08.209)

impossible from training. The more you train, the more you will get better at it.

So, first of all is music. You can never be a good dancer without loving music.

Secondly is curiosity.

Rabbil (01:38:33.06)

If you are a single-minded dancer, or I like how Victor dances, and that's all that matters to me, then you are lost. You will be only a copy of Victor, because Victor will be the only representation of dance you have in your eyes.

For example, I recommend every time like in a festival when we are with some of our students, go attend, they ask me which classes should I attend apart from yours. I said, go to this one, go to this one, maybe you may like and hear what you think. Whereas I could have told them, yeah, actually I've taught our classes, we planned to go to a restaurant, we sit on the lobby, we play cards, we do something. No, I always...

Let them go. It's very important.

Rabbil (01:39:31.643)

is very important and I have this way of doing things where I...

Rabbil (01:39:40.463)

If I teach because we have like different types of classes, we have the regular classes, which in Brussels I don't do anymore.

and only they happen, they take place in Romania with Allana. And I have another form of semi-private classes or long-term private classes. When I will give you a certain amount of time if you are beginner zero, I will train you there. I will take you from zero, regardless what you have learned before, we'll erase that and we start from scratch. And among that period,

If I cannot get you to a level of dancing, being able to dance after three months, then I will refund you, I will just tell you go take other classes somewhere else because I cannot teach you and I don't think it's good. So three months is the trial of whether this person will be a dancer or not be a dancer in three months.

And this is not about how many steps you will be able to do, it's about how your body receives the dance, how it reacts to it.

and this will define you as a dancer. And secondly is music. Music is there, present everywhere.

Rabbil (01:41:08.265)

You need to know music, where it comes from, although it doesn't matter the lyrics or so on, but where it comes from, what type of music am I dancing to. I don't want you to be having like a knowledge of a musician. Oh yeah, so Semba is different from Kizomba to this and that. No, no, no. This is a Semba Kizomba song. It doesn't matter. I don't care about that. Because as a dancer, you don't need to know what is happening there.

If you need a specific song, you can ask more about that specific song, but you should be able to identify this is from Angola, this is from there. And this also creates that love. And that love is what makes you  make more about it. subconsciously you get to realize...

Rabbil (01:42:05.489)

do things that you wouldn't have done in normal times.

Rabbil (01:42:12.105)

And for me, I recommend repetition. Don't limit yourself when it comes to inspiration. Inspire yourself to everybody. But don't forget yourself. Don't make the inspiration become... replace your personality. Keep it as inspiration.

Rabbil (01:42:40.089)

and make it an extra to your personality because it's very important to have a signature. This is what also makes you a good dancer, to have your own way of dancing.

Rabbil (01:42:53.487)

And this comes by you knowing who you are and knowing what you need to pour into yourself.

Rabbil (01:43:05.511)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rabbil (01:43:18.413)

Exactly, for the ones who  be good, those are things that can be helping. And for the ones who are questioning about music and so on, I've created on Spotify, there's my profile there, Rabbil allana, it's called on Spotify. I have every music categorized, music that we have in Kizomba and music that we don't even have in Kizomba.

You can go there if you dance Urban Kiz, if you like Ghetto Zouk, if you like Semba, if you like Kizomba, if you like those old school rumbas and boleros. Everything is there. And I think it's... Everything is in category. Everything. There are over 75 playlists there.

Victor (01:43:55.448)

So you've put that in categories so people can see it clearly.

beautiful beautiful no no it's great because people can distinguish this is Kizomba this is semba you know Ghetto Zouk so i think it's especially for new people coming to Kizomba that is it's important they get the clear understanding

Rabbil (01:44:06.45)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:44:10.044)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:44:15.303)

Yeah, especially nowadays in urban Kizomba they don't have music most of the time and what is classified as urban kiz are these instruments, heavy instrumentals with keyboards, electronic ones and they dance mostly on Ghetto zouk music.

Victor (01:44:33.036)

You know what you should have on there? You should have a playlist section for AI.

Rabbil (01:44:35.582)

Yeah.

I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. every time because every time I get to hear like on my release radar AI song, I don't even dare to like it or to even put it in a category. I just move ahead because Yes, there are AI songs. There are good ones. I'm a fan of some good AI sounding songs. But these are the songs that everybody's making in their rooms and pouring

Victor (01:44:56.366)

I get it. Yes.

Rabbil (01:45:07.986)

putting them on Spotify, I'm not doing that. I don't recommend, I really... I update every week, I put songs every week there. And in each category, and especially with this, I was saying, with this Ghetto Zouk situation, we don't have anymore Ghetto Zouk in parties because Kizomba people, believe Ghetto Zook is now urban kids music, you know. And whereas Ghetto Zouk is what made Kizomba be...

more spread and well received in Europe as it is so a part of it should be still present should be appreciated by Kizomba dancers this is something I know yeah and yeah exactly there is no single person who started to Kizomba who doesn't know Magico from Mika Mendes Rebound Chick yeah and Sayabranka

Victor (01:45:46.498)

definitely. Yeah, what brought me into this world and so many other people, you know.

Victor (01:45:57.89)

Rebound shake.

Victor (01:46:02.094)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So that's penis, man.

Rabbil (01:46:06.28)

et cetera and so on, you know? So it's very important and that's why I did that. If at least you cannot search for it, just go and click on the playlist and you will listen all of them there, you know? So.

Victor (01:46:18.444)

Beautiful. Okay, so everybody here go and check out Spotify. So Rabbil, just lastly, just lastly now finding out about you, been great. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for the knowledge as well that you've given. But years from now, yeah, when you look back, what are you hoping people say about not your technique, but your impact on Kizomba?

Rabbil (01:46:26.321)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:46:34.908)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:46:45.416)

years back if I would turn back and see I

Victor (01:46:53.292)

Yeah, so years from now, yeah, what do you, what are you hoping people say about, about your impact in?

Rabbil (01:46:55.004)

Yeah.

Rabbil (01:46:59.086)

actually...

Rabbil (01:47:03.854)

I'm just here to inspire the good.

Rabbil (01:47:10.126)

I don't  save anybody who doesn't  be saved. I am here to inspire and to show that there is still space for greatness and for the authenticity and that there is a lot that can be done when we are true to ourselves and we believe in ourselves.

And that trusting the process is the best choice every time. steps will get you further but not safer. So take time, don't rush anything. What is yours, what is meant to be yours will always come to you.

Victor (01:47:57.664)

Amen to that and thank you so much.

Rabbil (01:47:59.12)

Yeah, and that's my principle every time. I dream big, don't say don't dream big, dream big, but don't sell yourself for just your dreams.

Let your dream happen by its own time and this is the only thing we can give back to the culture and to what we love as dance and music.

Victor (01:48:30.85)

Fantastic. Thank you, man. Great words. And thank you for joining us, Rabbil, on Kizomba Conversations. I , so, because I spoke about your wife, but I actually didn't say her name, so please repeat her name for us. For me, please. Allana, okay, so Rabbil and Allana. Okay, that's what you have.

Rabbil (01:48:45.915)

Her name is Allana. Yes. Yes. This is also the name of the Spotify profile and our account and everything is Rabil Allana most of the time. Yes.

Victor (01:48:58.486)

everyone so you heard that you can you go and check that out and just just speaking about that actually so what are your socials Rabbil where people can can find you so you just mentioned Spotify but what about where they can find you on well Instagram Facebook

Rabbil (01:49:12.049)

So together with Allana we have Facebook and Instagram, which is Rabbil Allana. And we have a TikTok that we haven't used for a while, which is also Rabbil Allana. And I have my account as a DJ, which is DJ Ra, which is my set of name of DJ. And if you  speak to me directly, you have Rabbil.

Rabbil _ng on Instagram or on Facebook, Rabbi El-Ng. You have me there. yeah. Yeah, quite a lot.

Victor (01:49:43.566)

Fantastic. Yeah, fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us, bro. Thank you. Just, just quickly before we wrap up, we always have a little bit of fun at the end and we have some questions for you. Yeah, you see these two cards? Yeah, so you're going to answer them both.

Rabbil (01:49:56.056)

Ayeee... We kept...

Yes.

Rabbil (01:50:03.738)

Yeah.

Victor (01:50:03.762)

And basically what we do is I come up with questions and then we have some people who like the podcast. So I say, I have this guest coming on. What do you think we should ask them? Or what do  ask them? So one of them is from me and one of them is from a fan who likes the podcast. All right, so which one do you  answer first, the top one or the bottom one?

Rabbil (01:50:21.446)

Yes.

Rabbil (01:50:26.511)

the one that is held with the right hand.

Victor (01:50:30.574)

We're going for the screen, right? That's going to be my right hand. Is that the one you meant? Okay. Okay. Anyway. So this is the question, man. So it says, this is a beautiful one. This is my one. Anyway, if you were to write a love letter to Kizomba, what would it say? Or what are some of the words that would be in it?

Rabbil (01:50:35.097)

Yes.

Rabbil (01:50:46.183)

Mm-hmm.

Victor (01:51:00.086)

Yeah, so if you were to write a love letter to Kizomba, what would it say or what are some of the words that will be in it?

Rabbil (01:51:07.747)

If I would write that letter, definitely there would be me thanking Kizomba for coming across my path.

for thanking her, thanking it because I'm saying now in Portuguese, her thanking it. a Kizomba, you know. And thanking Kizomba for everybody that also it brought on my path and I got to meet and everything that I've got to achieve through Kizomba. Because it also shaped me as a human being without me realizing and...

Victor (01:51:26.786)

can call her. It's fine.

Rabbil (01:51:50.595)

I should be grateful to it.

And I hope I'm doing my best to give back to it through what I'm doing and promoting it.

Victor (01:52:03.278)

So lots of lots of thank you in there. And I think many people say thank you there as well. Okay. All right. Last question, then the other one. So you are stuck on a Kizomba Island. All right. And you can bring one thing with you. Okay, here are the options.

Rabbil (01:52:05.828)

Yeah.

Yeah

Rabbil (01:52:18.97)

Ha ha!

Rabbil (01:52:24.358)

Yeah.

my god.

Victor (01:52:29.806)

So your favourite dance partner? Yep. That's why I was laughing. Your favourite DJ? Or your favourite song? Wow.

Rabbil (01:52:32.933)

Hahaha

Rabbil (01:52:39.108)

Uh-huh.

Rabbil (01:52:46.225)

first the favorite DJ is me, myself, one of them. And if I would have to take one of my favourite DJs and my one my favourite song.

Victor (01:52:50.744)

Well can't bring yourself because you're already there. So that eliminates that.

Rabbil (01:53:02.119)

One of my favorite partner, dance partner, I... Damn, this is... It's tough because...

Victor (01:53:08.952)

That's tough.

Rabbil (01:53:14.373)

Yeah, with my dance partner, I will get to dance to that favourite song with that dance partner. But I will need the good DJ to play that favourite part, that favourite song. So as I said, music comes first. I will go with my favourite DJ because I know that with right music, I can still enjoy regardless of one person I'm dancing.

Victor (01:53:40.664)

Well, you know what? You were true and you were consistent all the way through the podcast. You said music, so you ended with music. So I can't say anything to that. All right. So that's a fantastic answer for that one, man. So, okay. Well, listen, Rabbil, thank you very much again for joining us here on Kizomba Conversations. We really appreciate it. We appreciate you. We appreciate the work that you're doing for Kizomba as well, especially in keeping it authentic and everything that you're doing around, your,

Rabbil (01:53:49.467)

Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

Victor (01:54:13.336)

Get together, your party, your home party, right? Which is Kizomba Treat. happens, yeah, gathering, gathering. Which happens every May, okay everyone. So please do check it out where you can and look for Rabbil and Allana on their pages on social media. And just wanna say thank you very much everybody for joining us, for watching and listening. If you would like to subscribe, please do. And like I always say,

Rabbil (01:54:17.465)

The gathering, the meeting.

Yes.

Victor (01:54:43.28)

keep dancing we'll see you on the dance floor hopefully sometime soon peace