Episode #1: In Conversation with Kizomba Teacher Shaina Kalila

Takeaways

• Kizomba is a family dance that is sensual, not sexual.
• A good leader in Kizomba keeps it simple, focuses on musicality, and creates a genuine connection with their partner.
• A good follower in Kizomba is musically in tune, actively responds to the lead, and avoids anticipating moves.
• Mastering the basics is crucial in Kizomba as they provide a strong foundation for more complex moves.
• Kizomba is a dance that is meant to be fun, relaxing, and a stress reliever. Basics are key in Kizomba, and dancers should never be afraid to attend beginner's classes to continue learning and improving.
• The international dance community in Kizomba offers opportunities to meet dancers from different parts of the world and discover new music and styles.
• Kizomba can have a profound impact on a dancer's life, providing a safe space for self-expression and personal growth.
• Teaching Kizomba requires patience, kindness, and a willingness to continuously learn and improve.
• Shaina's Kizomba Dance Experience events aim to create an interactive and fun learning environment while building a strong dance community.
• Essential items in a dance bag may include a handkerchief, perfume, and dance shoes.

Sound Bites

• "Kizomba is sensual, not sexual."
• "Kizomba is a family dance. It's about dancing with your mom, dad, cousins, aunts, and uncles."
• "Keep it simple and follow the music."
• "Both parties need to be active for the dance to become one."
• "Basics are key. You can learn something new, believe it or not."
• "The challenge of being a teacher is questioning whether I'm good enough or deserving of the position."
• "Tabanka Djaz and his band, it's just all the raw and real instruments that are playing. Like I can even hear the trumpets in the background now, like the intro song and everything, the way it starts. And it's just like, the song is like a massive hug."
• "Kizomba is my safe space. It's somewhere that I would never leave. It impacts my life a lot."

Shaina's mentioned songs: Artist: Carlos Burity Songs: Paxi lami & Julieta

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Kizomba Conversations

06:43 What Sets Kizomba Apart from Other Dance Styles

14:18 Challenges Faced as a Kizomba Teacher

32:05 The Importance of Basics in Kizomba

38:50 The Importance of Basics and Continuous Learning

47:03 Memorable Experiences in the International Dance Community

55:09 The Kizomba Dance Experience: Building a Strong Dance Community

01:05:25 Fun Question and Answer Session

Transcript

Victor (00:05.826)

Kizomba enthusiasts and welcome to the first episode of Kizomba Conversations. I'm your host Victor. And on this show, we get the opportunity to sit down with some amazing guests who are on the Kizomba scene. We get to sit down with DJs, dancers, performers, artists, and delve into their lives and find out why they love this amazing dance of Kizomba that we all love. I'm really, really excited today because I'm joined by my first guest.

First person that's on the show. I've been trying to get her here for a very, very long time and she finally said yes to come on the show. All right, so I'm really happy about that. So this person, my friend, she is a teacher here in London. Her classes are always busy, full and ram. She's an amazing dancer. I love dancing with her. So please help me welcome my friend, Shaina, to the show. Hello, Shaina.

You're finally here. Hello, hello, hello. Finally here. I'm so happy that you've made it, and I'm very happy that you're the first guest, and thank you for being here. So we're gonna get into all things Kazomba, all right? Gonna have a good conversation, and we're gonna find out all about you. Now the thing is, I've got so much to ask you, right? I just couldn't remember off the top of my head, so I've got these cards here with lots of information, and we're gonna go through these and see what we get.

Is that all right? All good. Fantastic. Okay, everyone, let's go. All right. So I think we'll start obviously with the first question then, yeah. And if we can just, you can tell the viewers, the people watching, just, you know, generally who is Shaina? Okay, just a little bit about you. Not necessarily about Kazomba, but a little bit about you. Who are you? Gosh, I mean, still trying to work that one out, lads. I mean, aren't we all? Okay. So me.

Funny girl, weird girl. I mean, day job, I work in property, and by night I'm a dancer pretty much. So I like to go out, I like to have fun. I'm young, ambitious, determined, have a lot of drive. But yeah, I'm just chilled, easy going. I like to have a lot of fun pretty much. I just have a good time. I mean, all my friends, you yourself know, anyone else.

Victor (02:31.85)

who's been getting to know me now, knows I like to have fun and yeah, pretty much just fun and relaxing. Just my day job is very stressful. So if I can chill out in the evenings, I will do. Thing about Kazomba is it's a great de-stressor, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. So you're on that dance floor, you can definitely de-stress if you've got a busy job in the daytime. 100%, so many people speak to me and not necessarily on the dance floor, but maybe personally via text and...

We discuss the issues that we may be having on a day to day. And, you know, when we dance, it's blissful. Don't think about anything at all. So yeah, it's nice. Fantastic. Blissful is a word. OK, cool. Excellent. So then tell us about your journey then into the, into the Cozombo world. How did you discover this amazing dance style? So through my mother, everyone who knows me for the last seven years knows I was Denise's daughter.

for a very, very long time. And I was happy to be Denise's daughter. So my mum had started, she'd been in the game for, I don't know, 12, 13 years or something. So when she was learning, she would take us, me and my siblings, to sort of mess around in the hall next door while she was learning. And then one day I had a bad breakup and I needed to take my mind off of it. And yeah, I was like, mum, where do you go?

during the evenings, like, what do you do? And she was like, well, you know, come along and find out. So my first, I guess, step into the dance world was at O'Neill's. O'Neill's, yeah. On Sundays, which it was at the time. And yeah, it was pretty much went there, take her class, because she was always doing beginners. And I had two left feet, to be completely honest. She was like, I just need you to follow, I just need you to shuffle. And it was like, this isn't making any sense in any way, shape or form.

But yes, since then, I think I have not stopped dancing since that first time when I was about 21. I hadn't stopped dancing at all without fail. So it's fair to say that you enjoyed that first class then? 100%, I caught the bug. Caught the bug and I'm here to spread the bug to anyone else. It's contagious. Okay, so well, okay, I mean, it's kind of the same kind of question, but before I go into that question, I'm gonna ask you, we've got some viewers who might be new to Kazomba. And obviously you and I, we dance it.

Victor (04:56.226)

But for those people who are new to Kizomba, how would you describe the dance style? What would you say to them? Or how would you describe it? So it's sensual, not sexual, very big difference. I know if you type Kizomba into YouTube, into Google, you'll see a lot of intimacy things taking place in the dance hall. But essentially when you get down to it, Kizomba is a family dance. It's about, Kizomba literally translates to party.

And it's a family dance that you dance with your mum, your dad, your cousins, your aunts, your uncles. So from where it originated from, no, it's not anything to do with inappropriate behavior on the dance floor. So whatever you see, it's not the case. But yeah, it's a partner dance. So me and Victor have been friends for a very long time. So we will happily dance it. Victor's happily married. It's just a dance amongst friends pretty much. And...

I think that's what I like about it. And I spoke with someone earlier on today saying that they prefer a dance like that compared to going to the clubs. I used to like clubbing when I went to university and you know, all sorts, as we all know, would happen in the club. But then it was like, okay, as I get older, I want something a bit more sophisticated, a bit more adult like, you know, as you know, you go through the process of adulting. And so, kizomba is not as intimate as you think. Yes, it is close, but think of it as like salsa, partner dance.

not necessarily couples, but two individuals who like to dance, like to have fun and enjoying the same music at the same time. Fantastic. So let's remember sensual, not sexual. So we've got to remember, right? Big difference. Big difference. OK, all right. So in terms of Kizomba then, you know, you've got other dance styles, right? So we've got like, you know, let's just take salsa as an example. You know what?

What do you think sets Kizomba apart from other dance styles? God, that's a question. Or what makes it unique, you think? I guess what makes it unique is, I'd probably say the origins of the dance, especially with it being a family dance. Usually I'm not au fait with the origins of the other dance styles like South Silver Chatter, but how I've known Kizomba is more of a family dance and there isn't.

Victor (07:19.754)

strict rigid rules, especially in terms of timing. Salsa one, two, three, five, six, seven, bachata one, two, three, tap. Kizamba is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, and one and two, three and four, five and six. So there's a lot of variation when it comes to kizamba. And I'm finding with the more that I teach, a lot of salsa bearers, salsa errors, people who dance salsa and bachata, they find it difficult to interpret.

the method behind Kizomba because they're so used to strict regimented rules and numbers and counts and they're like, so what's the number, what's the count? It's like, there isn't really a number or a count if you want to start on a three, you can start on a three. Pretty much. So yeah, I think that's what makes it unique and different. Yeah, no, absolutely. And then just, yeah, totally right. And building on what you said, I remember my first ever class of Kizomba and you know, I used to dance salsa. So salsa like so many people, right? We transitioned from salsa to Kizomba.

But I remember that first class, man, and it was tough. Because obviously in salsa, you can, it's more fast paced, right? So you're moving generally more than you are in Kizomba. And then you have to listen to the music more. And I remember, I just couldn't get it, man. And then the teacher, I think we also had a tough teacher as well. And he was proper because he was Angolan and he wanted to make his dance the right dance. And I just wasn't getting the moves. So I actually...

hated my first class. I hated it. But for some reason, all these years later, I stuck with it. And now we're doing a podcast about Kizomba. And I don't even know what salsa is anymore. All right. So it's like what you were saying before. It just gets you. Yeah. Right. And it's just, yeah, it's an amazing dance. So for anybody watching, you're new to this. Don't be afraid. Just jump in there. You know, you'll love it, especially the music. Okay. No, great. So thank you. Thank you.

All right, let's talk about you then, because obviously you are a teacher, right? So you talked a bit about your mum, but then I just want to find out what inspired you to become a teacher? Was it your mum or was it other things? I had no aspirations to be a teacher. It fell into my lap. And I took it by the gonads and I ran with it.

Victor (09:45.094)

I'm not a person who likes to be in front of people on stage. I get stage fright and anxiety very easily. So it was a case of...

Where I teach on Wednesdays, they needed, I was assisting Mekumba at the time, and they needed another level for absolute beginners as those who literally walk off the street. Mekumba is, sorry? Dance teacher. Okay. Another dance teacher, renowned, very great. Very good, very great at what he does. My mom always used to call him Semba King. Semba King, yeah. So I sought him out, because I was like, I need to find who this King of Semba is. And we need to get him on the show, right? Definitely. Mekumba, okay.

Cool. Anyway, sorry, carry on. So yeah, so I was assisting him and we needed a new level. Absolutely beginners, those who came off the street, who didn't know what they were doing, never danced before. And so that opportunity was given to me and I was like, okay, cool. We'll, we'll run with it. I've assisted him for quite some time. Um, obviously there was a syllabus as well and sort of like see how we go. Um, so yeah, as with anything, first few tries, first few goes were.

very nerve wracking and you know, I don't know how to project my voice and I don't know what to say, I don't know how to deal with it, this, that and the other. But now I absolutely love it. I fully enjoy teaching and that bug that I had is the same bug that I want to spread to everyone. And I want them, as you had said, you had an awful teacher when you had first started, or not, not beautiful. Yeah, just strict, yeah. Very, very strict. So your experience wasn't as enjoyable. I want every person who comes to my class for their experience to be.

enjoyable. So that was sort of my, what's the word I'm looking for? That was sort of, say my personal statement as it were for me moving forward as a teacher basically. So yeah, fell into it and now absolutely love it and now on a mission to make sure everyone loves it as much as I do. And that's really great because you said you were, you say you were a shy person, is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah, so it's always great to have that breakthrough because obviously now you're, I'm sure you're a lot more confident right?

Victor (11:55.298)

I'm still an introvert, but yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. But I guess, you know, it's more, it's all about that practice, the progression from where you were to where you are now. You know, obviously if somebody comes to your class, you know, they're not going to see you as a shy individual, they're going to see you as a probably a strict teacher as well, I'm guessing, but anyway, we'll talk about that a bit later. But okay. Cool. That's really, really cool. Cool. And with that then, I'm sure being a teacher, well, okay. So how long have you been teaching now?

thought about this the other day. Maybe two, two and a half years. Two and a half years. Yeah. Okay. I actually remember some time ago when we used to dance and well, yeah, so two years before, so time ago before you were a teacher. And I remember, you probably don't remember, but we had a conversation and you said to me once, you said to me, I want to be really, really good. I don't know if you ever, I don't know if you remember that, but you said that to me. I remember that.

And I was like, okay, cool. And then, you know, obviously now you're teaching. But, okay, you probably don't remember that, but why did you wanna be really good at dancing? Kizomba. I just wanted to be the best of the best. I'm very much used to being the best at what I do. So I literally just wanted to be the best of the best. And I could see.

I think I had aspirations in the back of my head, not necessarily prevalent at the time, to dance abroad, basically. So I was like, I just want to be good. I want to be able to dance with anybody that I dance with. So in that head space, I just wanted to only dance with teachers at that time, just to get better. Cause I was like, I love it so much that I just want to keep going and going and going. And even now still want to keep going and going and going.

Victor (13:51.066)

Anyway, yeah. Cool, excellent. All right, yeah, so let's talk about some challenges then. So obviously, teacher, you're confident now, but I'm sure that along the way, it wasn't always easy. So can you tell us, you know, tell the viewers and people watching, you know, any challenges that you kind of had along the way? Because obviously, you know, teaching can be really rewarding, but you know, it's not without its challenges, I'm guessing. So what can you show us? Yeah, so...

challenges I would say would be to do with myself and to do internally and externally. If I focus on internally, it would be more so questioning as to whether I'm good enough because some people may have had training from other teachers, not necessarily on how to dance, but also on how to be a teacher effectively. I was sort of just picking it up from what I'd seen and how I have been taught and seeing.

where there may have been errors in the way I was taught in order to try and improve and help the next generation of dancers. So yeah, a lot of questioning as to whether I was good enough or deserving of the position that I was in. Imposter syndrome, yeah. Imposter syndrome. It's a thing. And also like seeing others and being like, okay, maybe I'm not where I want to be right now, but I will get there at some point. And not pretending to be good. If I don't know something, then...

I'm happy to say I don't know. It's no point in me pretending and teaching someone nonsense and saying, yep, that's my student. Or they say, oh, she taught me. And it's like, well, I don't know what I'm talking about. So yeah, internally, it was dealing with that and also having to overcome my anxiety of being in front of people. So now, as a case of I count down from five before I go on, and then it's like, OK, I know exactly what to do. And it was also the lack of knowledge.

at the time, so we're still trying to learn how to teach, how to conduct myself, how to project my voice and things like that. And how to deal with other people, especially when it comes to certain questions or certain behaviors. So then it leads into externally, when you're dealing with people, it's everyone has different personalities, different, I'm dealing with adults, not dealing with kids.

Victor (16:10.69)

So I can't be disciplining adults like their kids. You obviously have to, there's a level of respect between, and obviously there are people who are older than me that I'm also teaching at the same time. So I can't be speaking down to them in general, I mean, even kids as well. But yes, having to manage that. And I guess another one of the challenges is people who don't get it. Okay. Talk to us about that. People who don't get it.

It's very frustrating. Sorry. When you say don't get it, you mean- Don't understand the step or you have to explain yourself a million times. There's a level of patience of which I never knew I had and no one tells you that you're need when it comes to teaching and I understand why my mum did not show me how to drive a car because the level of patience needed is out of this world, but I enjoy teaching beginners because you get to learn things from-

beginning for yourself and I have to remember where I started and I watched a video consistently of my mum trying to get me to shuffle and I couldn't move. It was like it didn't make sense. But then putting myself back into those shoes seven years ago, it's like this makes sense and the stuff that I was told or wasn't told at the time is now what I want to educate other people with. So it is challenging but then if you flip it into a positive you are learning how to

liaised with various types of people and various styles of learning. Some people are, you know, work best with movement. Some people work best with visuals. Some people work best with sounds. Currently, I'm teaching someone who has a hearing impairment. And honestly, it is an amazing experience because now I've had to tailor my classes not at the disadvantage of anyone else, but merely to the advantage of him to be able to understand still.

for him how to move without being able to fully hear the music. So yeah, it just makes it interesting. And also it becomes an interactive experience because now I involve my students and say, if you do me a favor, because I can't be everywhere at any one time, when I count down, you know, five, six, seven, eight, can you just tap him when it's time to move and he will move at that time? It's just, you know, we all have different ways of understanding the world. And it's... I sat back and I watched him dancing and I was like...

Victor (18:35.35)

to my friend at the time, if you just look at him, he can't hear a thing, it's silent for him. He can hear beats, he can, not hear beats, but he can feel it in his feet. He can feel it in his feet, but he can't hear a thing, it's silent for him. And whilst we're here, we can hear all the different percussion instruments, the string instruments, he hears nothing, but feels so much in just the bass. So it's an incredible experience. It is. And with the challenges comes...

comes greatness and you know, being a teacher is a great responsibility, especially a beginners teacher, because you are the mother to little ducklings who are going to grow up to be ducks. And that first interaction is the most important interaction for them moving forward. Absolutely. I mean, what a great answer. And I'm just blown away by that. Because, you know, obviously we say music, you've got to feel it anyway, right? But if you can't hear, but yeah, no, it's just amazing.

Okay, that's amazing. Absolutely amazing. Okay, cool. And obviously it's rewarding, like we said before, right? So you get a lot of rewarding feeling out of all that. Honestly, all I can see that they do is shuffle. Honestly, the best feeling. I don't have kids, but I've got a lot of kids out there. You've got a lot of kids on the dance floor. Who can shuffle, I'm happy about it. That's amazing. Okay, cool, cool. And then, all right, so are you able, as a teacher then?

I'm sure that you must have had some memorable experiences on the dance floor or teaching. So is there anything funny that's happened to you or embarrassing while you've been a teacher that you want to share to us maybe or can share with us on your journey? Something more funny. Ugh, that was hilarious. Someone had said to me, they said, what's the count? Going through steps for a routine.

And he says, is it a 16 count? I said, what? I said, 16. I said, I don't understand, 16, there's only eight beats per bar. Where did you get 16 from? I said, clearly someone not musically attuned, but that's, it's fine. You say it with a smile and say, you know. Okay. Not 16, but it's eight. We only do it up to eight. You don't hear me going nine, 10, 11. Okay. So awful.

Victor (21:01.814)

Were they educated after that? They were very educated. Yeah, okay. Well, they're in your class, right? So yeah, so it's cool. Okay, excellent. And then what about some of the teachers then that inspired you? Obviously you've got your mum there, but I guess what I'm trying to figure out is who inspired you or who still inspires you now? Who do you look up to in terms of the teaching world? No, well, I don't think I look up to anyone. Okay. I don't look up to anyone. I...

value everyone in terms of their experience of what they bring to the scene. There's no one specific that I look up to because the issue with that is you look up to someone and then everything that they do, you try to embody and you try to emulate and then you don't become your own dancer in your own right. You then become that dancer rather than yourself. So everyone, every teacher I respect, I try to go to their classes. I try to learn something new from them.

because they all have some form of knowledge from somewhere. So yeah, I wouldn't say I look up to anyone, but I do value everyone and their experience, especially in terms of shaping my journey along the way. Yeah. Is there anyone in particular that's helped you, that's kind of shaped your journey, took you under their wing, or you can say that, you know what, yeah, it's because of this person that I'm, you know, I've got certain things or anything along those lines. So I would say, Mekumba most definitely, we spent a lot of time together dancing.

on the dance floor. So as I said to you, my mom had said, this guy, he's really good. And at the time I was dancing five nights a week and I just wanted to, to just constantly dance. So me and him became friends and we, yeah, we spent a lot of time dancing together on the dance floor. And it was, it's almost like intensive training without me having asked for it.

Obviously saw the potential was there and just wanted to push and push and push. But yeah, I'm very grateful for that in so far as I wouldn't know what I know now had I not been taken under his wing for that period of time. Okay. So fair to say that you kind of push you out of your comfort zone a little bit. Would that be fair? It was necessary. Okay. Mekumba, we're getting you man. We're coming on the show, dude. Anyway. All right. Cool. Okay.

Victor (23:23.038)

Moving on to your classes then, so I come to your class, I'm a beginner, or some people have watched this podcast and they think, yeah, you know what? I want to try Kizomba now. I want to go to where Shayna's teaching. What can people expect from a class with you? So not so much how they different to other teachers, but what can they expect when they come into your, into your lesson or your class? It'll be fun and there'll be loads of jokes. One and loads of jokes. And a lot of sass.

It is misunderstood as militants. It's not. It's just, I want it to be really relaxed for them. I don't want it to be like a boot camp. That's the last thing I want. You don't want it to be, people don't come from work to then continue working after hours. So this is, as we said, this is a space where they relax. They want it to be blissful. They want all their troubles to disappear for that period of time that they're there. So.

It'll be fun, there'll be a lot of jokes, there'll be a lot of sass. It'll be nice and easy. If you don't get it, I personally am not fussed. As long as you come away and you can say, I've had fun and I enjoyed, I wanna bring my friends, I wanna go again. That's all that matters to me, to be honest. But funny enough, when you have fun, you do learn a lot. 100%, right? Yeah, no, and that's what it's all about. We do this because it's fun. We wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't fun. Nobody wants to, it's not a chore, is it? It's something that we love, the music's amazing.

community is amazing, you meet people, all that kind of stuff. So it's fun. So, okay, people fun. All right. So remember that. Okay. We go to Shayna's class. All right. What's your favorite move? What's one of your favorite moves that you'd like to lead?

Victor (25:13.638)

Anything comes to mind? You know what? I like to turn. You like to turn? Turn the follower. Yeah, I like to turn the follower. Gives me a bit of a break from the closeness. Nice little turn. Into a Saida. Turn into a Saida. Back together. It's delightful. What about a move on you that you like leaders to do on you?

Victor (25:36.874)

You know, I do like a shuffle. I do like a shuffle, or a saida. Yeah? Yeah. And so for those that don't know too much about the, I mean, I'm not a teacher, I'm not gonna explain it to you. Shane will explain that to you. But these are basic steps that we have in kazomba and saida and the shuffle, they're fundamentals in the dance. And you can do so much with them, which is what's great about the dance, so yeah. All right. What's your favorite move?

Okay. To lead or to? To lead. You know, I really like a move. So this was built off of Saida as well, but it's where you, where you bring the lady into you and you sit her down on your. Oh, that one. Yes. Your knee. Little rest. Yeah, little rest. Yeah, exactly. So that's one of my favorite moves. Yeah. But anyway, it's all good. But hey, this is not about me. Anyway.

Um, all right. That's question that actually leads into what we were just talking about, OK? So.

So what do you think makes a really good lead and follower? Okay, so if we start with leading.

What, you know, in your opinion, what makes, what are the fundamentals that you need to have to be, I'm missing out my own question, but basically what makes a good leader? Keeping it simple. Keeping it simple on musicality. It's like the formula to greatness. I don't need all these massive tricks or lifting me up, swinging me around the room. I don't need any of that, literally a passada.

Victor (27:22.594)

would do me great. And if you know the song at the back of your hand, and I know it at the back of my hand, and we both stop, start, do funny moves in between. Honestly, heavenly. That's all I need. Do you know, it's really interesting you say that and, and the fact that you're a teacher and you say that as well, because what happens in Kizomba I've noticed a lot is that

is that, you know, a lot of people, well, we're talking about leading in particular, and obviously most leaders are men, obviously they're great female leaders as well, but obviously it's a man and a woman dancer, the man usually leaves, right? So what I find sometimes is that men, they will see other men dancing, and they'll be like, oh, you know what, that guy's amazing, yeah? So it could be like a...

mi combo of somebody else, maybe more Semba, because they're doing all these tricks and all these fancy moves and it looks amazing, right? And the thing about men, a lot of things with men is performance, right? So men have to perform anyway. So it's all about performance. So they're thinking, okay, right, I want to be like that guy. Yeah. So they think in their minds, I've got to do this move, I've got to do that move, but they haven't really mastered.

the basics. So it's just interesting that you say as a teacher you like it to be simple and follow musicality and that's all you need. It's really interesting to hear. Honestly, yeah. Yeah, because people think you're like, yeah, I need to do that to make the girl have a good time and all that. But it's coming from your mouth, right? It's not necessarily the case. It's not necessarily the case. Don't get me wrong, Semba is my favourite out of Kizomba and Semba and I will always have a good time when the lead can do.

lot of different tricks, it excites me, et cetera. However, there's only so long that you can dance ember. There's a reason why they switch songs from fast to slow. You can't, unless your stamina is magnificent or that of a marathon runner, it's impossible for you to maintain that. And guess what we have to get back to after sembers done? Keeping it very simple because you're tired. Yeah. It's exercise. It's pretty much exercise. So keep it simple and do the musicality right. And.

Victor (29:42.73)

Honestly, it's magnificent. I think what is missing from the dance scene is genuine connections. And that's something I've been looking for years now, like a genuine connection on the dance floor. You meet up with someone on the dance floor and it just blends together like two cogs in a wheel. It just gels, it works. You're both in tune with the music, and especially if both parties are supposed to be listening to the music.

If you're both on the same time as the music, with music being in the master, then it's sweet. Very sweet. So yeah, music is the master. Follow the music and just try and be in sync with your partner, right? Isn't it? Just keep it basic, really. Sounds easy. It is easy, but yeah, you don't have to run before you can walk, trying to do all these fancy things. And you have heard it from a teacher, people. So yes. All right.

So that's leading then. What about follower? What makes a good follower, you say? Musicality. Musicality again, she needs to, well, they need to be in tune with the music, most importantly. That's the first thing they need to listen to and then their body needs to respond to the leader. So if you're listening to the music and one of the music and hopefully the leaders also listen to music and feeling the music, you both will be one.

and not anticipating anything. If you anticipate, you ruin everything. You ruin the formula. Don't guess. Just as I say to the followers in my class, all you need to do is follow, well, feel and then follow. You have to feel it first before you're able to follow it. You can't just reinvent the wheel and try and guess what's gonna come next. Even me, sometimes I make the mistake of, I know the song, I know where the hole is or where it's gonna break.

and I'm ready to break. Okay. So then the leader doesn't break and I'm like, Oh, made a mistake. Who has made the mistake, me or you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That's, that's interesting. So yeah, you have to get out of the habit of anticipating and thinking, you know, and trying to don't learn a pattern of a lead. Every lead has a pattern, but then the lead may switch it up and you can't guess and think, Oh, he's going to pull me out. He may not pull you out. He may turn you. You never know. So.

Victor (32:05.218)

Feed it, follow it, a musicality. Amazing, amazing. So, cause I think that the dance is seen as a, or some people might interpret it as the man has to lead the woman and everything the man has to do, you know, it's on him. But would you say that the follower has a responsibility as well? Definitely. It's a partner dance, it's not a singular person dance. So both parties need to be involved. The lead.

will forever have to be active predominantly, but the follower also has to be active in so far as they always operate with forward intention. So they have to be present in the dance. It doesn't make sense if they're not there because the lead might as well dance at the lamppost if it's not responding. It's all about call and response. So if the leader is calling, the follower then has to respond. So if they're not active in it or they're not present in it, then it's not.

it doesn't become a partner dance. It's like varying percentages between different elements of the dance. There may be times of which the lead may require the follow to do a bit more and add more percentage to the dance and vice versa. But essentially both parties need to be active for the dance to become one. And I think that's what's forgotten. The terminology of lead and follow makes it seem as if the follower is just training behind, but you're not training behind. You're...

still keeping up, you're still there, you're still present, you just need to respond when is your time to shine. Exactly. And I don't think that's relayed to the followers so much, they just think they have to be carried everywhere. It's like the leader's not carrying you, the leader's carrying their own body weight. And then to carry you is a lot because now if the lead then has to remain active throughout, then he has to, the lead has to do a lot, he has to listen to the music, he has to...

do the steps, he has to execute the steps, he has to work out as to whether the follower can do those steps in the first few seconds of the dance, as well as if the follower is like a lamp post, then he has to stop doing some of that to then focus on you, is a lot. So some of the burden needs to now be put onto the follower. If the follower is feeling, following, and is musically in tuned, then it takes off so much weight of the leader because they can just...

Victor (34:28.778)

dance. They can just focus on dancing and nothing else. It becomes less of a chore. No, absolutely. And you know, dropping some gems here because, you know, I've been to a few classes in my time and I don't think I've, well, I don't listen to what the females are being taught or, you know, a lot, a lot, but I don't really think I've heard this before where there's a bit more responsibility on the followers to be active, like what you were saying. So I think this is

you know, golden information, even for people who've been dancing for a while. And obviously for new people as well. So just think that as well. It's a, it's a, it's a partner dance, isn't it? At the end of the day. So, okay. Great. And then just on that, so we talk about leading or following. So I think with some men as well, it depends on, on them. So what I mean by that, if I give my example is when I first, so that one of the first lessons I had,

You know what the funny thing about this story is that actually it was in a place called Corks. So Corks, so where you teach now, years ago, I'm talking about for the old school Kazumba people in the UK, old school, in the West End there was a club called Corks and that's where you teach on Tuesday nights was back then. But anyway, what makes this story interesting is because I think this lesson was with your mum.

Actually, so I was in this class and it was early days for me and one of the first lessons I ever had and I was with this lady dancing and you know, because you're new to it, I'm holding her. But obviously I think, you know, because it's quite a close dance, right? You get nervous, you don't need lots of stuff going on in your mind. So I'm holding her and then she looks in my eyes and she says to me, you're holding me too tight. Yeah, you're holding me too tight.

I was like, oh my God, okay, right. So I need to let go. It was like, okay. And then obviously you have to learn not to hold too tight and not to be, whatever it is, you got to learn because you're learning this dance. But anyway, that's one thing. So I learned how to be a bit lighter. But the point I'm making is that another class I went into, I was dancing with a girl and she says to me, you're not holding me tight enough, right? So then I'm thinking, what is this dance? What are we doing here? Right?

Victor (36:52.918)

It's getting that fine line of understanding where your energy needs to be. And like you say, being in tune with your partner. So there's lots of little things you have to learn, which is why in my first class, I didn't like it because I just couldn't get anything, if that makes sense. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? This is why I say the first class is the pinnacle moment for new generations because a lot of teachers try and rush through a routine and try and get to the end of it. And it's not about getting to the end of it.

One is about having fun primarily. And two, they just need to get something. They just need to get something. If it's a side basic, if it's traveling, if it's being able to open the woman, turn the woman, if they can walk away from the class and say, I've accomplished this and I can practice this, then that will be the start of the building blocks for the next thing that we learn in the next class with that person or somewhere else, just a sense of, I mean, we're all humans, a sense of accomplishment is. Yeah. Makes you want to go forward as well.

Okay, I think I've asked this question, I just wanna just finish off on it. In terms of what are your thoughts on the basic steps then? How much value do you put on people in getting the basics right? Oh, a lot of value. Without the basics, you can't do much. Because each of these complicated moves that a lot of people are so fascinated by, the core element comes from understanding and mastering your basics. Without that, you don't have any foundation.

at all to go on. Like what are you... It's like doing, trying to be an engineer without your maths degree or GCSEs. You can't be an engineer if you don't have those basics. It's the same with dance. Oh, I'm an engineer without maths. Sorry. I'm loving it. It's the same logic. So you can't have one without the other, essentially. So yeah. Wow.

Yeah, man. So basics are key. And I always say, well, as you know, I'm not a stranger of going to a beginner's class. I mean, I've been dancing well over 10 years, but I'm not afraid to go to, but never ever too afraid to do that because I always think that you can learn something new, believe it or not. And you have to keep those steps grounded, man. Still a long way off being a great dancer, but I'm always happy.

Victor (39:19.81)

to do as basics, always, always. But okay, cool, cool. All right then, how are we doing, Shayna? All good. First guest, all good? It was amazing. Honored. Honored, I'm honored. Okay, let's talk about personal, so personal music preferences, yeah? So this question, I mean, you might not know, but...

Victor (39:47.382)

Um, what's your favorite Kazumba song? If there is one.

Victor (39:57.198)

I know that's a bit of a hard question. Let's just go with the first one. What's it called? Oh, sugar. Silencio by Tabanka Jazz. All right. We need to get that song. Okay. Well, Silencio by Tabanka Jazz. That's your favorite song. All right, well, we can all Google that, but okay, that's cool. That's cool. All right, excellent. Why? You know, it's the instruments.

Tabanka Jazz and his band, it's just all the raw and real instruments that are playing. Like I can even hear the trumpets in the background now, like the intro song and everything, the way it starts. And it's just like, the song is like a massive hug. It's like a massive hug. You can just imagine doing the simplest steps with someone. Nothing too complex, nothing too crazy, just someone holds you, you hold them, you connect, you hear the music. Yeah.

Any of you are in a club and you see Shaina there and you hear that song come on after you've Googled it. You need to grab her, but make sure you get your basic steps right. That's what I say. Anyway. So is that a song that when it comes on, you have to like, well, you know, you have to grab someone. Can't just stand in there by yourself. You know what? What is it? The more and more I tend.

venues, I like to dance solo. Okay, interesting. Just close my eyes and hold my stomach. Okay. Just, you know, just rock with it. All right, so she's through that, leave her alone basically. If your eyes are closed, don't even attempt. I'm in it. Locked in. That's fine because sometimes you want to, yeah, you can do that. You can go out and dance or you can just fill the music by yourself, right? So. Yes. And I remember when I first heard that song, it was at

Victor (41:54.49)

and I was dancing with someone and I was in a rush to Shazamit because I was like, this song is incredible. Honestly, incredible. And then the DJ walked past and was like, it's Silencia. I was like, why are you telling me to be quiet? I don't understand. It was like it's Silencia. I was like, oh, okay, I get it, that's the name. Okay, cool. All right, so that's your, okay, cool. So that's your favorite song, thank you. What is on your playlist right now, a couple of songs?

of mercy. Oh there's a... can I look up my phone? Yeah. Magnificent because there's a song that I heard. Yeah. Oh it's magnificent. Where is it? Just give us a title though. There's Voo Ba Bae, Van Little Saint. And the other one I'm obsessed with, Sheri Nga Ngaei. I don't know who the main artist is but Philo Dezua is featured.

Magnificent. And then we'll do another last one. Um, Guinea by Sabanga Jazz. Sabanga Jazz again. Yeah. I'm obsessed. Three songs there, people. You've heard it there. You can research those and play them. Okay. Cool. That'll be written in the comments. Yeah, absolutely. All right. I've got a question for you. Okay.

Victor (43:23.498)

I want you to imagine a meal. Okay? Already there. You're there, right. So you've got...

Okay. I'm going to write normally we have three course meals, right? But I'm going to say a three course meal, but you know, sometimes when people go out, you have your starter, your main, you have your dessert and then you have a coffee afterwards. Some people like a coffee afterwards. Right. So we'll call it a four course. Yeah. For those people, but it helps me because there's, yeah, I want to ask you some stuff. So imagine, okay, let's just say three course meal. Let's go back to that for a second. You have.

Kizomba, Semba, Tarashina, and Kompa. Yeah. How would you arrange that meal? So what's your starter? What's your main course? What's your dessert? And what's your...

So Kizomba, Semba, Tarraxinha, Kompa. You know what? We'll start with Semba first. Okay. Nice and quick. And then like I said, you've got to slow down at some point. So we'll start with Semba. Then we'll go with Kizomba, Tarraxinha, and then Kompa.

You want to finish off with Kompa? 100%. So out of all those four, is compa your favourite?

Victor (44:57.09)

Alright, compa. It's touched my soul. It's touched your soul. Okay, so again, for those people who are new to Kizomba, compa is a different, slightly different musical dance genre. So, can you explain a little bit about compa please, Shaina? I mean, I'm not au fait with it. What I'm saying could be incorrect. Okay. But it's derivative of...

from French Caribbean islands. That's pretty much all I can say on that. That's cool, that's fine. I can't say much more. Yeah, yeah. But I think it's the Caribbean sounds and the roots that I resonate with and I just can't. Can't. Anytime I hear it, I can't not stay. I could be on my way out up the stairs and I have to run back down. Is that serious? Is there any kind of movement that you have to make in?

It's predominantly gyration. Gyration. No one is condoning such behaviours. Gyration. However, it can be respectful. So long as both parties know that it's just a dance and it stays on the dance floor. Nowhere else. Okay. So I know a lot of people are going to be Googling compa or looking up compa now. But anyway, yeah.

Okay, so that cool. All right, so sorry, sorry. So you start off with Semba and then... Kizamba. Tarashinyo. And then kompa. Okay, nice meal. Right, you just slow it down. Slow it right down. Cool. Lovely. Okay, cool. Thank you. All right, let's talk about...

quickly about the dance community then. So obviously, you know, look, now, you know, we've been dancing Kizomba for a long time. It's amazing, you know, it's a great community. You know, I've made a number of friends in Kizomba. And, you know, you go out, you meet people, you don't just dance, you socialize sometimes. So it's a great community. But obviously it's international, yeah, as well. So have you had any memorable experiences with dancers from...

Victor (47:14.114)

different parts of the world that you can talk about anything that stands out or what have your experiences been like from the international community in dancing? Well, it's been good. It's been good. I've only started venturing out abroad this year, funny enough, to dance. But yeah, it's been good. One person I did dance with internationally was, what's his name, Carlos Canberra. I danced with him on Tuesday.

Very good dancer. Turns out I've got a lot to learn. Because that dance is very challenging. OK, Carlos teacher training here. Teacher teaching the teacher. OK, cool. Yeah, he's very good at what he does. Yeah. I've been watching him a while, actually, with his dance partner. So yeah, very, very good. And yeah, I mean, not only teachers, but also DJs. Discovering different types of music. Music I'd never heard before. So I went to Switzerland. Oh, nice. To.

dance for Guinness Bissau Weekend. I went to Malaga to dance again for Afro Festival. And yeah, I think those are the only two that I went to this year. But to discover the different teachers, the DJs, to go attend the workshops and things like that, that was, it's just different. It's just different to the UK. And I think that's what I've been hungry for, for sometimes something different to the...

The London scene, that's it, I don't know about the UK, but the London scene in particular. Okay, cool, cool. So Carlos then, you obviously can dance with him again if you see him and he puts through your paces and get even better and better and better. So yeah, okay. Does he come over to the UK often or? No, I think he was just here for an event on Monday and then seeing as he was still in London, see something else to attend another place again. So yeah, I'm glad I took.

opportunity. Great. Like you said we're all still learning right? So always, always learning irrespective of what title or status people like to put forward. 100%. Great and then what's your favorite festival that you've attended so far? Oh lord. Or do you attend the festivals? A little, I mean I enjoyed Afro Festival in Managas, the only proper one abroad that I've been to but I'm planning to go to many more.

Victor (49:40.506)

next year, but that one was, that one was an amazing one for me. Just, I've always wanted to dance abroad, um, and to be able to dance with the sun on your skin, a bunch of other people, and just relaxed clothing and no one really cares, and there's food and there's drink. It's amazing, especially in a room or on a rooftop with no one knows who you are. Yeah. Amazing.

Victor (50:09.93)

Okay, all right, so that's international then. So what about the UK then? So what are some of the places you like to go to in the UK?

I haven't really explored the UK that much, I...

I enjoy chocolate, I enjoy the Tuesday, O'Neill's, I enjoy as well. I recently went to one in Bristol, Noitada Maluka. That was a good time, again, different level of dancing. I think for me personally, I just aspire to improve my level each and every time. So if I'm surrounded by people who are better than me, it's amazing. As the saying goes, you know, if you're surrounded, if you're in a room and you're the...

you're the dumbest person in the room, then you're in the right room. Yeah. Basically, it's the same with dance. So I'm constantly trying to be in the room where I'm not the best dancer. Yeah. So it's like, OK, so there's more work to do. And it's always nice to have another goal, another challenge to have set myself to sort of accomplish, basically. OK, great. Excellent. So you mentioned O'Neill's and...

Chocolate, yeah. So do you, you there regular? Well, obviously chocolate you teach in there, but O'Neill's, you go there often? Not as regularly, but I taught there last week and I'm planning to incorporate that into my menu, as it were. Okay, cool. Yeah, and another great, you know, obviously big up to chocolate and O'Neill's as well, because they've been going for a long time. So they're established, well established places in the UK. So cool.

Victor (51:51.63)

speak up to those guys doing that.

Victor (51:59.87)

So obviously Kizomba brings people together. Yeah.

So my question to you is how has QZomba impacted your life? It's my safe space is what I'd say. It's somewhere that I would never leave. Anyone who enters my life understands that I will not compromise on dance. I will never compromise on dance. And that will always be the go-to. If I'm stressed out or something's not working.

some of the dance what I don't think about anything else. So yeah, it's impacted my life a lot and to the point now where now I want to go abroad, now I'm setting up my own dance experience and things like that just because I want to, as I said, spread the bug, spread it wide. Spread it wide and absolutely. So we both want to spread it wide because obviously part of this podcast is to

spread the joy of this amazing dance to as many people as we can as well. So a hundred percent. Could I ask you a bit of a left question here? Just came to me. Right. Just came to me. So you said you don't compromise.

Victor (53:19.882)

said gentleman is trying to get with you. And it's already not happening. Okay, all right. So I think we need to go there. Continue. Yeah, all right, cool. No, what's the question? Oh, the question is, you know, so because you said you don't compromise. So it's like, you know, guys trying to holler at you, get, you know, get with you. And you know.

Victor (53:46.454)

He doesn't like you dancing. I've had that before. Yeah, yeah. So I guess my question is, is that guy out the door? He is out the door. We can stop it there, that's all he needs to know. I was gonna find out. Cause you said you don't, yeah you said you don't compromise, I just wanted to clarify. Yeah, it's not, that's maybe less frequently, but it's, I'm a dancer. Yeah, simply as that. That can't be taken away or changed, I'm a dancer. 100%, yeah. That's it. They gotta accept it. And yeah, I mean, we could talk about that.

I mean you can attend and see how unsexual the dance is. Me personally I respect myself enough to not engage in that behaviour, but you may see other people behave and they're well within their rights to do so, so long as there's consent and within reason. Yeah, no, just, thank you. Lovely. Okay, so, um...

A bit about, so I know obviously that you are doing your own thing and you mentioned that. So, you know, you obviously teaching, you do that most weeks, but then you've got some other things that you've got on this, well, I'd say on the side, but other things that you do. So I'm talking specifically about, you know, one of your events. So tell us about, is it called the intimate Kizomba experience? I changed it when I first started. So now it's just Kizomba dance experience or otherwise known as KDU short.

So it's less of a mouthful. Sia, basically, it's, as you had said, intimate and intensive experience, of which attendees will learn the fundamentals, the basics of kizamba in a fun, interactive way. So rather than your typical class of an hour, you learn a routine, you do its music, and that's it. It's more you interact with not only the teachers, but also the students as well. So you've got things like

dancing with water bottles on your head or dancing inside hula hoops and things like that just to get you thinking outside of the box on what you are doing, what you're not doing and how you can do it better basically. So I've done four this year, they've all started in February. Obviously you had attended the pilot. I was in the first one, the pilot, yes. Attended the pilot and then came to the last one of 2023.

Victor (56:08.734)

And yeah, it's always had great feedback and I'm just trying to make it bigger and better. And again, just spread the bug in a different way to what's being done at the minute. Because classes are, again, it's militant, it's mundane, you know what to expect. But if you attend a four hour experience with other people who you may have never interacted with initially, then now you've got more people within your dance community that you can liaise with, go to.

And I've seen on Instagram, some people who were introduced together at the pilot one, going to salsa congresses with each other and things like that. And I'm not too sure if they knew each other before, but you can see the dance community is, it's just growing and that's what it's about. Building it, growing it, maintaining it, and just spreading the joy and love of Kizomba. Exactly. I can't say anything more to that. Exactly. That's what it's all about. So, 100 percent. So...

In terms of scaling your experience, then have you got any plans to make it big? What are your plans for the future for it? So next year, I am looking into doing two levels. So beginners and improvers. And I mean, the underlying message again is about building the community, growing it, but also having the next generation of dancers be great, essentially when I had started.

lots of people had fallen off in terms of the dance and now I feel like it's just me of my generation who is consistent and now it's a lot of new faces and not a lot of consistent people or committed people to the dance so I personally think giving people the opportunity to be able to find the love and joy in the dance will help them to become consistent and more frequent basically and that's

That's pretty much what I want, just a new generation of great dancers. Amazing. We need to keep that because this is an amazing dance and it needs to be done well. They need to learn the basics and that joy needs to keep going on and on and on, right? We never want to lose this dance, never. You know, I've just realised, first episode of the podcast, but if your mic is it, I'm hoping the sound is...

Victor (58:32.038)

Little bit. Okay. Towards the end we get most of the sound, but it's all right. All right. So I think I've asked you the question then, you know, it was around what, you know, so you've got that intimate experience, but is there any other exciting projects that you have going on in the world of Kazombo or is that the main things in the future? The main one. There are some other projects, which I can't speak about currently just yet, which are due to be happening in 2024, but it's...

Beneficial for me personally, as well as the rest of the community as well. Fantastic. Okay. Well, we'll look out for what that is. Yeah. So, okay. Cool. Do you, is there a Kizomba bucket list? Is there anything in Kizomba that you want to do that you haven't done yet? What's on your bucket list for Kizomba or are you just going with emotions? Pretty much going with emotions, but the main one was being abroad. Okay. And I'm going to conquer that next year by going to as many festivals as I can afford.

And as work will allow me in terms of time off. But yeah, mainly be a broad scene and just to see, see what it's like, become familiar with it. Because I remember everyone of your dance generation would go off to festivals during the summer and I didn't understand. And I was like, where are you guys going? Like, there's no one here. I was so consistent every week, O'Neil's, O'Neil's. And everyone who could dance had gone and I was like,

I'm just not getting where everyone's going. Now I understand why everyone's going abroad. And I've caught that bug too. Yeah, came a bit late, but it's all good. It's all good. No, I say late, but you know, we attended our first festival, I think it was 2016 or 17. And since that time, I went back nearly every year, pretty much. And then.

a few other festivals in between. So I think once you get the festival bug and you realize it's not just London, and there are good dancers actually out there, in Europe as well. So it's amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. Places like literally two hours away. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So talks a lot about teaching and you know, obviously we have beginners.

Victor (01:00:53.534)

have dancers have been dancing for some time as well. But what about the people watching who are thinking about becoming teachers or doing something similar to you? Do you have any advice, gems or anything you can give them about becoming a teacher, what to look out for or what they should do or anything like that? Be patient and be kind to yourself. It's no easy feat to be a teacher.

Victor (01:01:23.102)

And there's always room for improvement, always room for improvement and you're not perfect. So you have to, I guess it's about showing the students that you're also human. I think people get caught up in the title teacher and then they create a scale of I'm here, you're here. And it's not necessarily about that. And this is one thing that I see Josie do in her classes where she tells people that she's not a teacher, she's a dancer. So we're all here, all at this level.

She's going to learn from them and they're going to learn from her in different ways. So it's just letting people know. That you're also human, you're not a robot, you don't know everything, you all make mistakes. I make mistakes all the time. I forget to be like a when I'm trying to flip brains and being a leader to a follower. I'm not scared to just stand there and hesitate and be like. Yeah, if you want to come and.

me the followers side that would be perfect because I'm having to do two roles at the same time. Yeah don't be...

Be kind to yourself, be patient and yeah, make sure that it is something that you want to do. Yeah. Basically, don't just do it because you think it's about the money or the title. The students will smell if that's what you're after for sure. Sniff it out. Sniff it out for sure. Yeah. Okay, now that's really important as well. I guess you have to have a love. Well, it's like anything, isn't it? You have to have a love for what you do. Yeah. To be really good at it and make it come across really, really well.

So, okay, that is amazing. That is amazing. Is there anything that you, well, you know, how can we reach you or where you at or what you're doing? So for the people that are watching, where's the best place to see you or experience you? Anything you wanna plug out for yourself? At my house, late in the day. That's the best version of me. Okay, that's the best version of you. All right. But Tuesdays at...

Victor (01:03:29.802)

chocolate kizomba, be at one, Regent Street, Wednesdays, Bar South's a temple, tropical Wednesdays. So that's me teaching socially, obviously both of those places, sometimes I'll be at O'Neill's every once in a while, and there's also Drenna on Saturdays, first Saturday of the month usually. That's where I normally am.

Whereabouts are you, Trina? Brixton. Oh, OK. So Southside. Southside, not too far from the station, about 200 to 300 guests at a time. Or you could come to my dance experience. There you go. Right at the end. Got it in there. Absolutely. Definitely. That intimate one-to-one. Yes, definitely. I went to the pilot. It was great. Went to one recently as well. It was great. And not just the dancing, there's some great food there as well. Some great food, guys.

Great food. Some of us are chefs. Chefs just don't have the title. Yeah, good food. But anyway, cool. All right. But Shani, listen, thank you so much, all right. But before we let you go, I know I've found a lot of questions at you, but there's some other questions I want to ask you. All right. Some kind of different style, fun kind of questions. So we have some cards here. Shuffle them up a little bit. And

There are four cards. So I'd like you to pick three of them, an answer of three. And then the last card that's left, I will answer. Oh, you will? OK. The very last card. So I don't know what card it's going to be. All right, so the first one, you just pick one for now. Oh, that one. Which one? This. Yeah, take it. Oh. Yeah. So take it. Wait, do I say it? Yeah, yeah.

Oh, so you read the card, you read the question to us and then you give us the answer. Oh, am I answer? Oh, right. So it says, if you could dance Kizamba anywhere in the world, where would your dream dance location be and why? Lisbon. Lisbon? That shadow of a doubt. Okay. Oh, it says Kizamba. Okay, not any other dance. Yes, Lisbon. I love Lisbon. I think it's a magical place. I don't get bored of it. I mean, it's really small. And I know...

Victor (01:05:54.774)

Lisbon like the back of my hand and yeah, it's just, honestly, it's just great. And I think that's where, was it August 2020? Must be 2020. I think we were slowly coming out of the lockdown and we could start to travel. Went to Lisbon to dance Kizam, but I couldn't. But I said, you know what? I love the language. I want to be around it. I want to hear it. That's why I would dance on the beach. Beach is Lisbon, yeah.

Green Linthus Bend is really nice. Yeah. Lovely place. Lovely, lovely place. Okay, great. Card number two. All right. Get that one. Okay. If you could invite a famous person, dead or alive, to dance Kizomba with you, who would it be and why?

Victor (01:06:46.962)

You know who? Carlos Borussi. Carlos Borussi? Yeah, he died in... What year did he die? In what year was it? I think 2021 or 2020, I think from COVID. His songs are amazing. He's just like Godfather when it comes to tikka zumba and Eurydice Cunha paid tribute to him when I went to Lisbon early on in the year to watch him perform live.

Yeah, his songs are amazing. Like, what was the song? Pashi, Yami or something like that. It's just, every song he sings is just, it touches your heart. There's another one, Julietta, that he sings, which I found out recently.

Okay, so say the name again so people can hear. Pashiyamy, P-A-X-I-L-A-M-I. And then Julietta is the other one.

It's just give you a big hug. Did you say he passed away? He passed away. Okay. Yeah. Sounds sad time. Yeah. Oh, that one. Oh, delicious. If Kisama were a flavour, what would it taste like?

Victor (01:08:00.394)

Rice and peas. Is that a flavor? That's not a flavor. Make her in the house. That's not a flavor is it? Rice and peas. Oh. Coconut's in there, but anyway. I know, I was thinking coconut, but why, coconut, tropical.

warms the heart. It's like comfort, comfort. If you put coconut into it, it's like comfort food, like boundaries like, hmm. Okay. All right. Comforting.

Victor (01:08:29.87)

Go on, go on, say it, say it. I was gonna say Neapolitan, that's horrific. Hey, it's whatever makes you feel, look, because I'm gonna make you feel good, right? So whatever makes you feel good, that's the answer in terms of what it tastes like. You know what, I know after this, I'm gonna come up with the perfect one. No worries. It's cool, you answered it. Coconut. That's it. All right, so the question you avoided is for me. I've avoided it, I had no choice.

I would have really liked to hear what you had on this one. I can still answer it. I guess so.

Right, so name three essential items you always have in your dance bag. So, okay, as a guy, don't really have a bag, but three essential items that I would take out with me are my comb. Whatever. Anyway, um, sorry, but anyway, combing my thoughts. Yeah, combing my thoughts. No, sorry guys, seeing girls.

It would be my handkerchief, yeah? Because when you dance, when I dance anyway, having a bald head, man, I sweat quite a lot. And that sounds really, I know, anyway. But the point is you're having a good time and you sweat. So as me, I need a hanky, yeah? To keep it. It's exercise. Yeah, yeah, exactly. To keep my head not sweating too much. The other one would be some aftershave or something that smells nice.

Yeah, because yeah, you need to be refreshing yourself. Definitely. All right. So that's number two. And number three would probably be another t-shirt or something like that. So yeah, I think those three things would be what I would bring as a guy. So all right then you can answer the question as well then. So I'm interested to know what ladies chewing gum chewing gum.

Victor (01:10:37.514)

Should have changed it, but anyway, yeah, chunga. For the community. Yes. Perfume. And my dance shoes. Dance shoes. I can't leave without my dance shoes. Yeah, I'm always interested with that question because I'm interested to see what, if it's a girl, what they say, because I thought they'll be very similar. So dance shoes. So you always come out with two pairs of dance shoes? Just one. So I wear flats. Okay. I come out in flats.

and then the dance shoes. Then the dance shoes. Perfume, obviously I smell nice. Chewing gum. Yeah, it's gotta be done. Up close and personal. Yeah. Don't know what anyone's had for lunch. Yeah, man. I personally don't sweat. I actively don't sweat. Make it my life's mission to not sweat on the dance floor. So how do you do that? You just don't sweat or you just dance one song then stop then what? You've got to tap into the homeostasis.

Okay. You just got mentally dosed. No sweat in today. I need to try that. That's cool. That's cool. Try not to over exert myself. Yeah. Just keep it chilled. Unless it's compa or gyration. I'm telling you, I'm sweat standing still. Yeah. Oh, I've got a lot of compa, man. It's all good. Exactly.

Oh, look Shayla, listen, thank you. Thank you so much for joining me, joining us on the first episode of this Kizomba Conversations podcast, being our first guest and just being a great first guest, actually. Thank you for coming here. Thank you. It's been a joy and I hope to get you back in the future and get some updates, you know, see where things are and you know, how you're dancing, teaching has been as evolved.

and obviously how your experience in terms of what you're doing is evolving as well. Yeah. So thank you very much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Everybody want to say thank you to Shayna. I hope you enjoyed the first episode. If you like the content, please let us know and we can be back with some more amazing guests to share this wonderful world of Kizomba that we all love. So I'm signing out now and I'm hoping to see you.

Victor (01:12:59.958)

very soon. Keep dancing. Basic steps. Peace.