Episode #2: In Conversation with Kizomba Teacher Riquita Alta

TAKEAWAYS

• Riquita Alta's love for Kizomba stems from her deep connection to the music
• Connecting to the music is essential for a fulfilling Kizomba dance experience
• Learning both leading and following roles can enhance a dancer's understanding and skill
• Teaching both leading and following is important for Kizomba teachers to provide a comprehensive learning experience In Kizomba dancing, the leader is in charge and the follower mirrors their movements, but followers can have an active role, especially in open frame dancing.
• Connecting with the music is essential in Kizomba, and students are encouraged to listen to as much Kizomba music as possible to become familiar with its nuances.
• Kizomba music originated as a fusion of Zouk and Angolan rhythms in the 1990s.
• Riquita shares her journey as a Kizomba teacher, starting from teaching her best friend in Portugal to becoming one of the first Kizomba teachers in the UK.
• Teaching the foundation is crucial in Kizomba, and beginners should be taught by experienced teachers who can effectively transmit the foundation to them. Mastering the foundation of Kizomba is crucial before attempting tricks or advanced moves.
• Repetition and patience are key in learning and improving in Kizomba.
• Teachers should find a balance between promoting students for financial reasons and ensuring they are ready to progress.
• Teaching Kizomba as a hobby allows for a focus on the fun and enjoyment of the dance.
• Kizomba has experienced significant global growth, and it is important to preserve and promote the authentic style of the dance.

SOUND BITES

• "Connection is always going to be to the music."
• "A teacher needs to do both, needs to know how to do both."
• "The leader is in charge because he's the one leading."
• "Connection with the music is important, not just with the partner."
• "Kizomba as a dance and music genre came about in the 1990s."
• "You can't just dance tricks on their own. They don't make sense. So I always have to do the foundation."
• "Repetition is key. If you don't, if you just want to move up...you're not going to enjoy it."
• "I don't want to make Kizomba my job. I want to have Kizomba as something that I have fun with."

Music: Riquita mentions Zouk band - Kassav

CHAPTERS

00:00 Riquita Alta's Journey with Kizomba

20:02 The Influence of Zouk Music on Kizomba

27:06 The Importance of Connecting to the Music in Kizomba

29:02 The Role of Leaders and Followers in Kizomba

31:23 The Benefits of Learning Both Leading and Following

32:21 Teaching Both Leading and Following in Kizomba

33:18 The Dynamics of Leading and Following

35:43 Connecting with the Music in Kizomba

38:08 The History of Kizomba Music

44:00 Riquita’s Journey as a Kizomba Teacher

49:31 Teaching the Foundation in Kizomba

01:05:34 Mastering the Foundation

01:09:07 Balancing Promotion and Readiness

01:11:32 The Importance of Basics

01:14:22 Semba and Kizomba

01:19:32 The Joy of Teaching

01:25:07 Feeling Over Appearance

01:26:31 Kizomba's Global Growth

01:28:57 Advice for Aspiring Teachers

01:31:19 Kizomba Experiences

01:33:14 Dream Concerts

01:34:21 Never Bored of Kizomba

TRANSCRIPT

Victor (00:05.23)

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Kizomba Conversations. As always, I'm your host, Victor. Today, I'm joined by a very special guest. This particular person is one of the best Kizomba teachers, period, on the dance scene. She's a ball of energy, an absolute joy to dance with, and her passion for Kizomba is off the charts. So let's welcome the wonderful, the amazing, the super talented,

Riquita Alta. Hello, Riquita. Hello, hello, hello. We are so happy you're here. And I think you know that because of the way we've been contacting you, trying to get you here. So we are very, very happy that you're here. So thank you for joining us. No, my pleasure. You know, always, always ready to help. Fantastic. Always ready to help and talk about Kizomba, right? Of course. OK, so we're going to do just that. So we always start off with loads of questions.

And for you, you know, we have plenty to get through. Yes. No, no, it's because you're such a legend in the game and you've got so much knowledge, so much advice. So we're hoping that people can learn a lot from you on this particular episode. The purpose of the podcast, as people know, is to spread the joy of Kizomba to as many people as we can reach. And you are definitely going to be helping us with that.

Thank you. I hope so. No, a hundred percent, a hundred, a hundred percent. So, you know, we always start at the beginning. and you know, you teach in London and obviously I know you from, from London. but, and many people know you as well, but we don't necessarily know you, know you. So what we want to do is find out a little bit about you, anything you want to share, but I'm just talking more about, you know,

maybe where you grew up. So this is actually before we even get into Cozomba. So we just want to find out a little bit about who Riquita is and then we'll delve into the Cozomba part. Is that okay? To share with us? So who is Miss Alta? Who is Miss Alta? You know, as obviously the Portuguese people will know that Alta means tall. So yes, and as you know very well, I am nothing.

Victor (02:25.454)

So therefore not tall at all, but that is actually my name. So I know that when people see me in social media, I'll take it out. And then they come and meet me. but you're not tall. So I know I'm not tall. Anyway, moving on. I was born in Angola. Yeah. So as we know, that's where Kizomba is from. But I left at the age of four at the onset of the civil war.

Cause my, one of my parents and my father's Portuguese, so my mother's Angolan, my father's Portuguese. So a lot of people had Portuguese families or parents or grandparents or something. They kind of fled, fled the country to, well, they fled the war basically to go to Portugal, you know, and other countries. Some, I think, went to Brazil, some went to different countries, but the majority went to Portugal. So their first influx.

of refugees happened in, my God, I'm going to say my age, happened in 1975. Yes, that's how old I am. She looks amazing. I get the age, Sherima, yes, you were saying. Right, yes. So, yeah, so we fled, you know, amidst, you know, shots, you could hear shots outside and, you know, it's proper war, you know, a civil war, you know. The year before had been the war of independence from Angola, independence.

from Portugal, sorry. And then 1975, I think, you know, my history is a little bit hazy now, but 1975, a lot of us fled because the civil war ensued. So we had to vacate the country, I guess, and move to the unknown, because it was the unknown. So I do have some memories of that fateful day.

fateful nights, I don't know. I remember just fleeing. My mom putting clothes on me and then just, vividly I remember it. And hearing shots outside and then just going, fleeing. I got bitten on my finger by a parrot. I still have a scar there. We were, you know, pit stop, bathroom breaks, I guess. And then there was a cage with the parrots and there I put it.

Victor (04:49.87)

stick my finger in and it bites me yeah something to remind you that as well yes of course yes there was i was a kid so to me that was was an adventure i guess but i'm the youngest of my siblings so i think they they remember a lot more than i do you know and to me it was more like just moving to another place yeah didn't didn't really register so much i think for them it was

was hard and for my parents, of course. And then, yeah, we moved to Portugal and where we had to live in very cramped conditions. We actually, actually had to sleep on the airport floors. Hundreds of families were just sleeping on the airport floors because they didn't have anywhere to stay. But eventually, you know, we found like because some of our families were already there, so they would come to the airport to

to see if they any of their families, but those days telephones, I don't even think people had telephones. So, yeah, so a cousin of ours found us there and then he took us to where he was staying at the time. So is this nice, very nice. We were very lucky, actually. Nice place called Troya, which is a peninsula on the south side of Lisbon, near a place called Sotubo. And they had just made those apartments that were meant to be for tourists.

So they had houses. So yes, we were that was like probably the best place we lived in Even though it was just a one -bedroom apartment for a family of six But that was the best part after that we kept on being moved to other places and just sharing one bedroom per family basically apartments with that we were sharing one bedroom per family one bathroom for four families kind of thing and But to me as a child. it was amazing. Yeah

Adventure, right? So many other kids, everybody was in the same situation, lots of kids and it was mostly countryside so we would be playing outside amongst pine trees and eucalyptus trees and all sorts and dirt. But we'd spend hours and hours outside playing and yes, we had a lot of freedom. So I think there's always...

Victor (07:12.686)

advantages and disadvantages, I guess. I think for children is not so much of an issue. I think it's more for the for the adults. I think they suffered a lot, lot more. However, everybody was in the same boat. Yes. So as Angolans, obviously, it was mostly Angolan people at this point because we were fleeing the country, a war -torn country. So what did we have in common to celebrate, you know?

I don't know whether it be celebrate or more to have more of a family spirit kind of thing, you know, because we left everything behind. So kind of reminiscent of, you know, the family traditions and so kind of what happens. We used to have parties, lots of parties.

That's what they call it, Fesce de Quintal. Quintal means backyard. Fesce is Quintal. So backyard parties. So we would just have them there, you know, in the refectory, you know, canteen that we all had to eat. And yes, and I think this was our, where we lived, the place where we lived, but there were many, many other places in Portugal where this was happening, you know, families thrown together.

in very cramped conditions, but however, we had each other and we had as Angolan people, I think African people in general, in general, like to eat good foods. We like to have music and we like to dance. A hundred percent love it. Yeah. I've been dancing since yeah. Time immemorial, I guess, since as long as I remember I've been dancing. so yes. So my love for dancing was born.

I think I was born with it in a way, but yes, by just witnessing. And you know, the kids, you know, just run around the kid, the adults dancing and we're stepping on their feet. We learn by, you know, being on the grownups feet. And that's how we learn kind of in those days. You know, I think even now people do that. Yes. That's and then eventually we were housed in permanent accommodations. You like it again.

Victor (09:36.462)

families thrown together in the same, but we had our own space. We didn't have to share anymore. And by this time I was 12, 13. And around 13, age 13, that's when I actually started learning Kizomba. Which was not, yes, we used to, Kizomba actually means like parties. Kizomba as we know, Kizomba means party. And then we say, let's have a Kizombada that's like a party with, you know.

Angolan music and not just necessarily Angolan music. We used to dance as couples, yeah, partners dance with anything, not just all sorts of African music, even Latin music. I think from what I heard, there was a record label called Plena, which was a thing for Latin music. And then we would dance the same steps that we do to Kizomba. We would then dance it to Latin music. And so if you go to an Angolan party.

and they play salsa or bachata. You're gonna see us dancing with the Kizomba steps, but adapted to the Latin music. It's very fun. Nowadays, you don't see youngsters really doing it, but the older generation still do and I love it. It's so much fun. So that's why we call that kind of dancing plena. Plena? Yeah, plena. Okay. It's a...

It's fun. So we danced to everything, not just Angolan music, of course. We didn't even have Kizomba music. Back in those days, we used to dance to revita, Semba, because obviously Semba is very old. It's quite old. I think it started in the 60s, if I'm not mistaken. It's quite old type of music. But Semba was not danced in couples. Even though we did dance in couples as a partner dance.

to Samba music and to other kinds of music, Samba itself, we call it Ma -Semba. Ma -Semba is like touching the bellies. So it used to be like in a circle and then there'd be like two people in the middle and then they would do the touching of the bellies called Ma -Semba. Samba itself was from Ma -Semba, which was danced in a, not as partners, but although we could dance as partners, you know, but the partner dance.

Victor (11:58.542)

was mostly to any, any, any type of music, any African music, you know, from any country, it would be fine. That's why we would dance. Yeah. So lots have come out of that and that's great. And thank you very much. No, no, no. This is what we hear. We want to hear this. So amazing. But I'm obviously sad what happened there, but it's, I mean, it's, you said that obviously, you know, you were a kid, so it didn't necessarily affect you as much. Still obviously would have affected you and obviously your parents, but you know, at least you were.

I guess young and you know, maybe having fun every now and then with doing different things. So yeah, okay, right. So there you go. So that's cool. And then out of that, you know, go to Portugal and, you know, and then in terms of Kizomba, it's a thing where it was made for bringing people together, right? So out of sadness, we have some sort of positivity in a great dance, which I love, absolutely love. Seriously, Kizomba hijacks everything.

The moment you start dancing Kizomba, you don't want to dance anything else. I've seen enough people dancing other dances. The moment they sampled Kizomba, they totally forgot the other dances and they're just dancing Kizomba. My wife introduced me to Kizomba. We used to dance salsa. She introduced me to Kizomba. I left salsa. I know plenty of people who have left salsa for Kizomba. Although I dance salsa, but I didn't leave Kizomba for salsa. I danced both.

Dance boat, okay. I shouldn't say I leave, I dabble still in it. Yeah, you still do it once you know how. Because it's beautiful. Okay, no, but again, thank you so much for sharing. That music just makes you want to dance. That's why we're here, right? No music like Kizomba, I'm sorry. No music like Kizomba. Nothing like Kizomba. Although, we'll continue and I'll tell you later. It's not my favourite music. I love Kizomba. I'll tell you. Okay, cool. Well, remember to ask what that is.

But I just want to go back quickly because you said you picked it up around 12, 13, is that right? When you started learning. Because what happened, like I said, we used to dance as couples to most sorts of music, but we didn't have the steps that we have now. Basically we only had the basic, which we had the virgo and the reverse virgo. That's what we had. Not much else. So then we started to dance too. And this is where my favourite kind of music comes from.

Victor (14:23.822)

Zouk. Zouk, okay. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. So we cannot talk about Kizomba without talking about Zouk. So for those of you that don't know what Zouk is, Zouk is a type of music. They say that the fathers of Zouk, the creators of Zouk were a band called Kasav. I think a lot of people will know who Kasav are. They're amazing. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. And I think if memory serves me right again.

Age memory just doesn't, it's not the same as before. So I think they toured Africa in 1983. At that point I was 12. my God, I keep saying my age. Why, why, why? What's happening here? Anyway, so they toured Africa and obviously they went to Angola and it kind of exploded. People were just so in love with this. Who are these? It's a type of music. It's got a little bit of the African beat, but it's a different kind of beat as well.

And from what I know, Zouk is also a fusion of Kompah and I think Calypso and Kadance, but don't quote me on that. I know Kompah for sure and is it Kadance I think from Dominique? I'm not sure, but don't quote me on that. But I know it's a fusion as well. And I know Kompah for sure. And people just are like, my God, what is this tough music?

And it was quite fast. Some of them were slower, some of them were fast. And the first time I heard it. So, you know, because of the civil war, a lot of the obviously a lot of families were in Portugal. So if they had, if people in Angola had families in Portugal, what they would do, they would send their children before the age of conscription, is it conscription you say? Yeah. To their families in Portugal. So one such person was one of my cousins, well actually two of my cousins.

And so they came and one of them to this day, the people in my neighbourhood call him Kasav. Okay. Because he brought this album. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously in Angola they knew in Portugal, not many people knew, but the way that we knew is from people from Angola coming to Portugal. And he brought this album, vinyl, those days, vinyl. Amazing. Vinyl is still very good. And he brought, yeah, album of Kasav. And,

Victor (16:47.022)

Then I heard the first song that Zucla says to me to come on you knew something like that. I may be butchering it, but this is anyway, so he brought, I heard that song and I was like, my God, this is amazing. So obviously at this point I'm too young to go to clubs. I think only about that time, some clubs started springing up in Lisbon. There's one like it's called Bon Tom. Well, I think it was one of the first ones. I never went to that one cause I was way too young.

And during those days they did let young people, teenagers, go into the matinees, you know, the clubs. So I never went to that one. But the backyard parties, like we say, the neighbours were having parties in or outside, we'd just party outside. And then they started playing cassava. And then all these Angolan people were coming, all these young men were coming to Portugal and they were bringing...

all these new steps. Initially it was all very basic. Like I said, it was mostly just doing virgulas and reverse virgulas. And then I even remember watching this video. It is on YouTube, this group called the Africa Tenta Sound. And in one of their songs, I think it's Sofia Rosa. I'm not sure the name of the song could be that one or could be, you know, AutoCaro 45. These are songs, you know, and from this group, they were very famous as well. And...

I actually watched it a few years ago. I didn't watch it back then. And I could see them already doing a little bit more and doing like Casamento and say, so this, I didn't realize that Casamento was as old as 1983 or 1984. Because some people will be new to Kizomba watching this. So you've mentioned with Yugula, Casamento, can you just maybe very briefly explain what they are? So when we call it Saida, Casamento is part of Saida. Obviously with Kizomba, Saida means exit. Yes.

So Kizomba we dance in couples, we dance close, right? But when we're doing the sayid, it's like either the men are pulling the lady to the side or they're going to the side. Actually, we didn't even call it sayid. Back then we used to call it pordeladu. Pordeladu means put on the side. That's what it means. And a lot of people, if you speak to the majority of Angolans that don't even know what dance classes, Kizomba classes are, they will say pordeladu. Okay. Okay. Because that means go to the, put the lady to the side.

Victor (19:10.99)

So casamento means marriage. So you're marrying the man's saída, where the man goes out, with the lady's saída, where the woman goes out of the frame. When we say saída, it's exit from the frame. That's casamento. Yes. And virgula is the rotation that, because Kizomba is a circular dance, as we know. So the virgula is the rotation that you do with a little bit of what we call a cha -cha step or the shuffle step or...

And that's what, I know we all, there's other terms like they call it retroceso, and it's when you change direction and then you do that little shuffle step. But yes, the virgula, that's what makes the rotation is virgula, retroceso, and later on became what we call estrella. They're like the three main.

Basics of Kizomba. Yes, Kizomba has a lot of basics, but those are the main ones. If you can do that and if you can just dance on that without doing any saidas, you'll be perfect. If you can do it well, fantastic. You know, so as I was saying with the Zouk, we started dancing to Zouk music. So for most of the eighties and early nineties, we didn't have Kizomba music per se. We never had Kizomba music.

but we had samba music and rebita and other types of dancing. And there was at the time there was like cabetula, viola. These are different types of dancing, not couple dances. But I think rebita was kind of a couple dance. And we started dancing to Zouk music. So like I said, throughout the eighties and early nineties, all the clubs played primarily, maybe 99 % of the music was Zouk music. So we have a lot to thank Zouk.

Zouk community. Not to confuse with the Brazilian Zouk. There has nothing to do with Zouk music. Zouk music was already there many years ago from early 80s or even late 70s, I think. Zouk has already been there. Brazilian Zouk has nothing to do with it, so don't confuse it. And yes, we were just dancing to Zouk music. Yes, we had Bongo. Bongo is a huge name in Angola. And we had Carlos Buriti.

Victor (21:25.422)

which is amazing, amazing, which I had, I had, I was very, very blessed to have been able to see him before he passed away. So it's one of the very, very big names in Angolan. You saw him in Angola? No, here in a few years ago, before COVID. okay. Before COVID. So he's amazing, amazing singer. So we have quite a few big names that used to sing Semba and more traditional music. But then ZOUK just took over.

So I fell in love with Zouk. So when I say I love Kizomba, I love Semba, but Zouk is in my heart. Okay, well, I always have a question that I ask my guests, but you've just answered that already in terms of what your favourite is. So we don't need to go there anymore. So it's Zouk basically. Retro Zouk. Retro Zouk. Because not modern Zouk.

Yes, retro -ZOUK from, this is part of my journey through Kizomba, through the dance itself. We didn't used to call it Kizomba. We call it either pasada or another name that a lot of people don't know, but we used to call it bailada. Yeah. Bailada comes from the word baila. Baila is like ball. Yeah. So we used to call it bailada. Actually, even more than pasada, we used to call it bailada. Pasada means steps or walking. Yeah. So that's what pasada. So sometimes they used to say, eh.

So as passada, the steps is if somebody danced really well. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So kind of came from, yes, we're going to hear a little bit of Portuguese coming, coming from, from me. but yeah, so that's how, and the reason I know all of this again, like coming back to my age, I was there. I, I, I,

basically grew up dancing Kizomba. So I started learning Kizomba at the same time that Kizomba as a dance, which was by Lada or Passada kind of came to be. So then, you know, like I said, it became so big that some, yes, we like people in Portugal, all the diaspora, all the people that came from Angola, they went out dancing.

Victor (23:40.782)

And they were like making up steps as well, but a lot of these new steps that were coming was from Angola. So, so happens that 1989, 1986, I, you know, I was lucky enough to go with my mother to back to Angola. And also it was a cousin's wedding. So we went there, stay there for two months. It was so exciting. I was 15 years old and I already knew a little bit of Kizomba. It wasn't great. It was just basic.

And then I went there, went for this wedding and then we went to a few other parties. And that's what I properly learned. You know, I'm 15 years old. I wasn't very good, but I was like, you know, I was one of those, I'm a trier. Let's try. So I went and I tried and after a while everybody was dancing with me and I was learning more and my cousins could dance. I was like, you know what, let's, let's dance. Then I remember I wasn't amazing. Then I continued dancing and then.

Age of, you know, 18, that was just before I came to London. I even remember some of my cousin's friends, they moved to Portugal as well. And then we're going to clubs. This is in the club at this point at 17, I started going to clubs in Lisbon. There was one specific one, which was very famous. It was a Sunday matinee. This club was called IF. IF. It was a small shopping center, very small, small shopping center. And this club, IF.

was on the basement. And they also had a shop there, they sold a record store. So they had the best music because the record store would bring all of these new ZOUKsongs. So I started going to the martinez when I was 17, the Sunday martinez. So we'd get there, the first ones to get there, five o 'clock. And then it would end at 10 PM. And I would not stop dancing from as moment. They opened the dance floor until the end. I was dancing nonstop.

So when like some of my friends, my cousin's friends came and they were going out dancing. And I remember him saying to me, the guy saying to my friend, can she dance? Cause she wasn't very good in Angola. Well, I learned, but I'm still very, and then they said, just go and dance with them. And then they would come and dance with me. I'm like, my God, you've changed a lot. Well, yeah, because I've been dancing. I just, I love to dance. I mean, it's in my blood. You know, I just love to dance. Give them anything.

Victor (26:09.006)

It's... Well, the next question literally is, listen to this. So it's basically saying, I know you love dancing, okay? Just from knowing you. And it said, you know, you're always happy to dance. And, you know, if I ask you to dance, you never say no, you never say no to me. I don't think I've ever seen you say no to anyone. But anyway, if they ask you to dance. But, you know, I'm nowhere near your level, but you're always patient and you dance with me. But you are very good. You need to give yourself some credits. You are quite good.

What I want to ask you is, what is it? What is it about Kizomba? Well, it's Kizomba conversations, but you like to dance. But what is it about Kizomba that you love so much? Music. Music. Let's start with that. Any teacher that is worth their salt is going to tell you that the first thing is music. Before you even start dancing, you need to listen to the music because you need to get acquainted with it.

You know, because there's so many nuances with the music. There's so many different breaks and ups and downs. Song goes up, goes down, slows down, speeds up. So you need to always follow that because you need to be very connected. I don't know if you, I know you've heard this many times when we're talking about Kizomba connection. Connection is very important, but people think connection has to be with your partner, that you need to be close. That's not necessary because you can dance far away from your partner without actually body connection.

And you still have connection with connections. In my view, connection is always going to be to the music. Okay. So it's connection to the music. So if you connect to the music, so kind of both of you connect to the music, but like, because the leader is the one that's leading the steps. So he connects to the music and then the follower will connect to the leader. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Not because obviously we, we are an extension. We like a mirror. The followers are the mirror, the reflection of the leaders. because.

The way that I know Kizomba to be is like when you're dancing, you need to look like one. That's that connection. You need to look like one, even if you're not even close, but you need to look like one. So it needs to be a, it's like a symbiotic relationship, isn't it? So, so when the music, you need to know the, me obviously, because I've been doing this for a long time and I don't do it with everyone. Obviously I do it with those that are very, that I'm very comfortable with. And,

Victor (28:34.414)

Yes, they are. They have to connect to the music, but I also connect to the music as a follower, you know, and sometimes I know I always say to the followers, you need to follow the leader. You need to follow. You need to adapt. Your body needs to mold itself to the leaders. Not the body, but the movements, body movements. Yes. However, I also know the music and.

depending on the person I'm dancing with. I know that they're always gonna do what I want them to do, but what I do, and I do sometimes very subtly, I move them. I move in a way that they will end up following me, but just for a couple of seconds. And then they realize, this is what she wants. And then they do it. But you can't just do it to everyone. Please do not, as followers, do not do that. You have the freedom to do whatever you want.

when they open the frame and they let you go, then you do your thing. But when you're dancing in frame, try to always follow, mold your body and your movements to the man's movements. But again, you can sometimes change the course of the dance. I don't advise if you are a beginner, but not with just anyone. You need to be with somebody that you are very comfortable with.

But I do do that sometimes. I tend to do that because obviously I know you're going to get to that. But I teach, you know, I teach Kizomba. So I tend to do a lot of that with when I'm dancing with the students, especially if I'm following a leader. So by me kind of back leading, please do not try this at home. I make them follow me so then they know how to lead.

A few years ago, me and myself and Rashida, you know, Rashida Forbes, we did like these workshops. Maybe I should do it again. I don't know. I'll think about it. Yes. We did this workshop where we were teaching the ladies to lead, but the leaders, we're teaching the followers to lead and the leaders to follow. When you do that, you're more able to feel the other side. So you know what the other side feels.

Victor (30:56.942)

You know, so, and you can become a better dancer. So that's why I always say, if you're a teacher, especially if you teach on your own, like I teach on my own, but even if you don't, it's important that you know how to dance both sides, the leader and the follower. You know, because sometimes, especially if it's a leader that is teaching on his own, but he doesn't know the women's steps. So then all the women, the followers, I...

I'm trying to be politically correct here saying leaders and followers. It will slip, I'm going to say, ladies and gents, you know. But oftentimes the followers feel cheated because it's a while you're teaching the men how to lead. But where do I fit? I'm just following. And oftentimes, you just have to follow. That's not true.

You don't just have to follow. You still need to know the movements. You need to know where to step, how to step, how to react to the lead. So it's important to learn. So as a teacher, if you're going to be a good teacher to me, and there may be people that don't agree with me, I'm not here to try to please other people. I'm here for my experience. Absolutely. A teacher needs to do both, needs to know how to do both, at least possibly. You know, if you're a leader.

you need to know some of the followers' moves. And if you're a follower, obviously me, as myself, I teach on my own, I have to teach both sides, right? I have to teach the lead and the follow, which I've been doing for a long time. Yeah, yeah. That's good. And I agree, I agree with you. So we have conversations about it. And so I want to learn how to be a follower myself, because I think it will help my dance. Well, I know it will help my dance. If I know...

if I'm leading a lady or someone, I'm leading them into a move. I know, okay, right, she's, her weight's here. It just helps me in my mind be a bit clearer of what I can do, right? So I totally agree with that in terms of that. So, but what I wanted to ask you on this topic while we're on it, it's gonna come a bit later, but we're gonna ask it now. So - I jumped the gun. No, no, it's good because we're here and I wanna find out. And I've asked this question before, but you touched on it, but is, who has the -

Victor (33:18.03)

more responsibility or is it equal? I know that might sound like a silly question, but you just mentioned that the follower has to be active as well. So when a leader is leading, does the follower need to match them or is the oneness always on the leader to be in charge? The leader is in charge. The leader is in charge because he's the one leading, you know, so the follower is not going to be able to dance unless you have somebody to lead you. Yes.

It is a partner dance. If I want to dance on my own, I can do whatever I want. Even sometimes there are songs that I don't particularly want to dance with anybody. You know, some songs that just remind you, you bring back some memories and you just want to dance on your own. I do whatever I want. I dance, I can dance as a leader, I can dance as a follower and I just dance. But if you are dancing with a couple, somebody has to lead you. Same with salsa. I mean, if you let go, then any, you know, the floor is yours. But if you are within that frame,

It's the onus is on the leader to lead. And we, as followers, we, we just, again, we are an extension. So we mirror what they do. You know, we literally are the mirror image of what the leader does, but we are not going to do, I'm not just going to dance with somebody without them leading me. So when I say an active role, like in a sense that you are following what the leader is doing, but the active can also be when you are, the frame is open.

When it's close frame, it's all on the leader. Yeah. And we following, but when it's an open frame, when the lady has more, you know, has more scope, can do a lot more things and she can start do a few things. And then the leader will kind of see that, okay, let me play with it. It can be very playful, right? but yes, we, the more active role is the leader role. Again, there may be people that don't agree with me. well it is what it is. Yeah.

But with any dance, with any partner dance, we can have an active role, followers can have an active role, but it depends on when we did that dance. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so especially for people who may be, you know, new to the dance, it's important that they kind of hear this because sometimes we, you know, you probably heard the term, just follow, right? And it's not, you don't just follow all the time. You have to be a little bit active as well. So you have to, as a follower, you need to, and I really like what you say about...

Victor (35:43.726)

you know, connection, but not just with the partner, which is we get taught to be connected with our partner. Absolutely. But if you connect with the music first, so you're the first vessel and then that goes through you transmits to the follower. And then so that for me is pretty amazing to hear. But that's how that's how it should be, because you're not just going to dance, you know, like painting by numbers, you're not just going to dance. OK, you know the steps. Now I'm just going to do a hundred and one steps that I've learned.

Yes. And forget about the foundation, forget, just going to do all of these steps. And then what, where is the music? Where does it fit into it? Yeah. The music fits into, actually the dance fits into the music. That's how, that's how it works. So, like I said, the music has many nuances. my God. It's got so many nuances. So many, there's lots of breaks and like I said, you know, the slow bits, fast bits and you know, and you have...

to account for that. So it's important to, as a student, listen to as much music as you can, because then you become acquainted with the music, you become acquainted with the beats and when it's going to change. Sometimes I don't even know the music, but I know by the way that it builds up, I know where it's going to drop, the beats going to drop. I know when important music is the most important thing.

So you mentioned that it's important to listen to the music. So, you know, I listened to Kizomba quite a lot, but have you ever, do you ever like, you know, you're at the bus stop or the train station or something, you're just listening and you're just dancing. Does it ever happen? People look at you. Yeah. I start looking at the cameras. Where are the cameras? Where are the cameras at? You know, I just go a little bit. Exactly, right? You want to dance? All these guys, they're cameras. And I want to dance, but at the same time, I'm like, my God. Yeah.

Exactly. That's funny. I should just start busting some words in and forget about what people say, right? I'm not hurting anybody. Some people do that, especially if they're in groups. I've seen people doing it in airports and bus stops and they just put the music on and they just start dancing, which is fun. Why not? You're not hurting anybody. Dancing is fun. Like you said, it's addictive. You knew people, it's addictive. This is what's going to happen to you. my goodness. It's like...

Victor (38:08.206)

Yes, some people call it a drug because it's the music. Yes, they love the dance, but I think what gets people to Kizomba is the music. So yes, the music has changed a lot throughout the years. Now we hear a lot of Semba, we don't even hear so much Kizomba anymore. But Kizomba as a dance, as a music genre came about 1990, something like that.

by, because it was a fusion. They, it was like, they call the father of Kizomba, they call Eduardo playing the father of Kizomba, but he wasn't, obviously he wasn't the only one. There were others like Ruka Vanduna and Ricardo Abreu. There were others that were already experimenting with fusing, ZOUK music because ZOUK has got that like very strong beat. Yes. With, with, with Angolan rhythms. Yeah. And, and then that became a fusion. So initially the Kizomba songs sounded a lot like ZOUKor Kompap.

That's what they sounded a lot like. Then they started putting the instruments that we hear in samba, like the kanza and the Congolese guitar and all of this. But it was mostly, you could tell the difference just by the beat and the beat was very strong, ZOUK beat. So we have a huge influence, ZOUK really influenced Kizomba music.

We didn't have a name, like I said, the name Passada by Lada. That's what we used to call it. I think somebody once asked, Eduardo paying, what's the name of this type of music? And then Kizomba, you know, ZOUKf rom my knowledge, from what I was told, ZOUK means party. So Kizomba also means party. So I think because of that, they asked him what is the name of the song? this is the, what I was.

told, I was told by him, by him and myself, and I was told by other people, what does it mean? And then he said, I'm going to call it Kizomba, you know, to because of ZoUk, you know, also being called party and, and it stuck. And then initially we're like, I love those. my God, what's this new type of music? I was excited. As you can see, I get very excited about, about the music and, and then yes. And.

Victor (40:24.526)

Then for quite a few time, because there was a period like between mid 90s, late 90s kind of thing that we heard a lot of Cape Verdean doing Kizomba. So at some point we stopped listening to ZUK music. The music started, they started slowing down the music. Not that we didn't have a lot of people think that Kizomba used to be very fast back in the day.

And no, Zouk music, we had fast Zouk, we had slow Zouk, it didn't matter, but we still danced to the beat. Then they started slowing down the music. And obviously, because like all the other PALOP countries, and I'm assuming if people don't know what PALOP is, it's the acronym for Portuguese speaking African countries. PALOP means país africanos, the language of Portuguese, which I just explained to you what it was.

So the five countries that they started doing the same thing, mixing Zouk with their own. What other five? sorry. We have Angola, Cape Verde, Guinea -Bissau, Santo Mey Príncipe, Mozambique. I think there's been another one added, Equatorial Guinea, if I'm not mistaken, has been added recently onto the PALOP countries, but initially it was just five countries. So back then they were doing this, they were also following in the footsteps of the Angolan.

predecessors like Edward Paine and company. And they also started fusing the music, the ZOUK with their own, like with Cape Verde, I think would be ZOUK with coladera. Coladera is a very, very typical Cape Verde music. And then they start kind of slowing down the music. And then that's when at some point we have Tarraxinha. Tarraxinha is like the more like slowish, even though I must say Tarraxinha

Back when it started, some of them were actually quite fast. To this day, if they play the music, people will think it's samba and they'll dance fast. I can't imagine fast Hashima. No, the music itself, but you can slow down because within the beat, you have the main beat, but then you have, you can count, you're stepping onto, you step once and on two beats, stepping on two beats.

Victor (42:48.878)

So yes, and they had the very, very strong beat of Tarraxinha has a quite, quite a strong beat. And then it started slowing down and more and more and more. And then for quite a few years, nobody did any passadas, saídas, yeah, por del lado. Nobody did that for many years. I was very upset. I was very, very upset. So, but then at this point I got married. I had a child. I wasn't going out anywhere as you do sometimes when you get married. Yeah.

And but anyway, so within that time period that I wasn't active on the dance scene, I...

Everything was like all like basically there was no more no more but then for at least a good decade the Cape Verdeans ruled the airwaves in terms of Kizomba. They really did and the music is amazing. Really, really, really good. But yes, so I came to London. I'm probably going to be one of your questions and I'm already. It's OK. Go for it. It's fine. Preempting you.

I came to London in 1989, maybe. I was 18 when I came to London. Came as an au pair, you know, and there was a very small Angolan community here. And then one, so a lot of people don't know this, but those that were there, you know. So there was this gentleman called, he's also Angolan, called Alex Gurdjieff.

And he opened the first Kizomba club in London. It was in a club called in Oxford Street called 79. Don't know if it still exists. I don't think it exists anymore, but it was called club 79. So I think it was between Tottenham Court Road and Oxford Circus. I think it was in between there. And it was every Sunday morning, kind of reminiscent of if.

Victor (44:54.534)

By the time I left Portugal, there were a few other clubs, a few other Kizomba clubs. And I used to go like every year, I used to go three times a year to Portugal just to dance. my gosh. All my friends were there. I was like, I want to dance. And then he opened this matinee in London, in Oxford Street, Club 79. And like the whole of the Kizomba, the Angolan community here, not just Angolan, but obviously the majority.

war Angolan and we used to go to this club and I remember once a couple of times they had like competitions, yeah it was small scale competitions because we weren't that many but...

Victor (45:39.854)

I, with another, this gentleman, I want to call him gentleman to be polite. Well, he's nice. He's a nice guy, a really nice guy. We decide, okay, impromptu competition. And then he says, let's dance together. Yes, let's dance together. And then we won. You won? Congratulations. Yes, it was like again, small scale competition. But hey, you won. I won the competition, you know, and it was fun.

But I guess I said, Kizomba was not... Throughout the years, more steps were added, you know, and then there were many styles, many genres. There was one that we kind of used to sway like the wind. We looked like we were swaying. And there was another one that we call Cavallino. Cavallino is a little horse that we used to kind of jump it. Now it's grounded. Don't jump. Don't bounce is what they say. But back then, I mean, we had different kinds, different genres. And...

very fortunate to be able to have experienced all of this. A lot of people that are new, they can only experience from their starting point, but I experienced from the starting point of Kizomba in a sense. So I've been through a lot of it. Purest. A bit. A lot. No, listen Riquita, this is great. It's great to find out about all this stuff. So this is amazing. Amazing. Amazing. So...

I wanted to ask you then, teaching wise, okay, so you're one of the best teachers out there. How many years have you been teaching and when did you realize you wanted to teach? Okay, this is a story in itself. So the first time ever that I taught, I was 18 years old in Portugal before I moved to London.

So my best friend, this is a story that I've told many people already, my best friend, she had moved to London the year before, because she's a year older than me. And mind you, we've been best friends for almost 40 or something years, because she was also a refugee. So we met when we came to Portugal, we fled in the same country, we were in Troia, the same, yes. So we've been best friends ever since. She came on holiday to Portugal and she wanted to go out dancing.

Victor (48:02.702)

She didn't know how to dance Kizomba. And I was like, me going out every weekend, going out dancing. So she wanted to go out and experience dancing Kizomba. So she was always the shy type. And then I said, okay, we have to remedy that. So we spent one afternoon, I even have pictures of me teaching her that day. And it was one afternoon.

one Saturday afternoon, I think, that I taught her to dance. But in order for me to teach her to dance, I had to learn the men's tips. I was very good back then. I was very good at, even now I can still do it at reversing. So I was like, okay, as a woman, this is what I'm going to do. So my foot's going to go there. So what will the men do? Which way? And I was able to position myself in, you know.

within the men's steps, the leader steps. And so I taught her in one afternoon, like she says many times, if I was to use the same techniques now that I use with her, I would have been sued by now. wow. Okay. I was very strict, you know, I think she got slapped on her back a few times. wow. Wow. Okay. You know, but hey, I don't, I do not condone.

Right? Condone that kind of attitude. So, a way of teaching. So, but whatever I did, it worked. So later that same night, we went dancing to this club called, used to be a theater, but it changed into a club. It's called Club called Mayombe in Lisbon. It was quite big. It was a Guinness, it was a basement, but it was huge. It was absolutely huge. So I took a day and...

I don't know what I did or what she did. I never leave the dance floor normally when I, you know, never left. People always asking me to dance. But you know, but she, I think, danced more than me. I said, that is not fair, right? Here I am, the experienced one, and here you are, newbie and you're dancing. Yes, she learned, yes, she was able to learn in one afternoon. Wow.

Victor (50:28.014)

because I was very strict. Wow. But that's how I learned to lead. Of course, I wasn't like an amazing lead. I'm not saying I'm an amazing lead, but I can lead fairly well at this point. It's been too many years, you know. And so that was my first foray into teaching. You're okay now. I'm not using the same methods anymore. It was safe. You're safe. And then obviously I came to London and then...

Like I said, we were dancing these matinees and then other clubs opened and then I got married and for many years I didn't dance. And then in around 2001, I think, you know, got divorced, started going out, but I, nobody really was dancing Kizomba. So the only places where they were dancing Kizomba was like Mota Rajinha was in the Lambada clubs, Lambada Zouk. It's later became called, it changed into Zouk, that's what they call it, because they started dancing to Zouk music.

and, yes. So all the, golems would go to this cause because of the music. So we didn't have our own clubs anymore at that point. So I started dancing salsa because I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I don't mind Tarraxinha. I can dance Tarraxinha, but Tarraxinha for Angolans is more you dance with your partner. Don't really dance with just anyone. Right. So, and then, I taught a few other people. There was this lady, she's, she's living in China now, but her name is Nadia Nadia Yamin.

She used to dance salsa, I think she even won some salsa competitions as well. She was quite known back then. And I taught her to dance Kizomba and she really loved it. And then, and then we used to dance in these Lambada clubs. We used to dance, I used to always lead her and people used to always ask, what is this? You know, because they thought what they were dancing like the Lambada was the way to dance to this music. And I said, no, this is Kizomba. I used to say, this is Kizomba. So they, they asked me at the time.

Why don't you start teaching this? This is really good. And, that says, yeah, but because it's to us, polyps and go and polyps, it's not a new kind of dance to the majority of people. It will be. So I'm not going to dance with a woman. You have to usually have like a couple of proper now doesn't matter. Back then it's a new dance, a new dance for, for, for non -PALOPs. we have to showcase it with a man, but there was no one that.

Victor (52:55.982)

would fit the bill. So there was one time I remember I was in Scala at the time and on the top floor at the time there used to be the Lombard room. And I do this for Lombard because now it's called Zouk, it's not called Lombard name, but at the time it was still Lombard Zouk or something. So Scala is a club in London, right? It's a club in London, yes. So I met this guy, which a lot of people know who he is, called Kwenda Lima. Yes.

And I saw him dancing, he's Cape Verdean, he's not Angolan, so we do have different styles, but he's an amazing dancer. And I saw him dancing and I was like, and he saw me dancing because I was leading my friends. And I was like, And then I invited him to teach with me because I wanted to teach. I had been, I was already teaching people, like privately, they wanted to learn Kizomba. There were Kizomba clubs, Angolan Kizomba clubs, but not to the public, not to the majority of the public, just for the PALOPs.

And then I asked him, because he had just recently moved to London and he wanted to teach because I think he was teaching in Portugal. I didn't even know that Kizomba was being taught anyway. I had no idea. But then he said, yes, in Portugal just recently they had started teaching. I think this was 2004. And so he asked me, no, I, sorry, I asked him if he wanted to teach with me and he said, yeah, yeah, sure.

So, but again, we had to make it known. So I had already a place where we started teaching, but we wanted to reach a bigger audience. So this is where I know, I think a lot of people know who Iris Debrito is. You know, she was a salsa dancer. I think she does still do a lot of salsa. She's amazing salsa dancer. And so because she was very well known. So in this same club, Scala, so she did the demo of Kizomba because she's also from Angola. So she did a demo of Kizomba with...

with Kwenda on stage. In the meantime, there was no social media back then. Let's just make this clear, 2004, no social media. So we, people used flyers, give the flyers outside, right? Or via email. So I was in the background taking emails from everybody. Did you like that dance? Did you like that dance? Sia, would you like to try it? So then she set up here, set up a workshop where the three of us were teaching.

Victor (55:18.19)

And so we had currently a few people from salsa, but the majority of the people that actually did the classes were from the Lambada because the music, the music was similar. Well, it's the same kind of music. So, so the Lambada clubs, I remember the majority of people dancing in the little corner was the Kizomba, ones that wanted to learn Kizomba. And, but it was only the, and then there were other people like, there was this lady called Marie Doyan. And she, at the time she, she used to come to my classes and Kwenda's class as well. So.

she set up this, what you call, Kizomba UK. And then she had Edith and then another person, another promoter called Danilo, Danilo Goncalves. So the three of them set up Kizomba UK. And because, you know, obviously she had a lot of contacts with the salsa, in the salsa scene. So that's when they started doing the El Grande in the...

one of the rooms when he was still in the, at the Coliseum in Vauxhall. So they started doing, the Kizomba day, you know, so, so I had left for a while because with the young child, it was difficult for me to teach. So I think for one year I stopped, but then, so Kwenda started teaching with one of our students that became our students. He started teaching with her. and, but then he had, he decided to move back to Portugal.

So then, I mean, I know he did a few, he worked with Edish as well and they were doing some workshops as well. And then I came back, I think it was just for a few months. Then I came back because he left, but they needed the same place. They needed, they already had quite a few students, so they needed somebody to teach. So I came, I took his place. I started, continued.

continued teaching and I remember for at least a year, if I'm not mistaken, I was the only Kizomba teacher in the country. I know others were doing here and there, but not like as in continuously every week. So I was, but it was mostly just in London. And yeah, and then students then became teachers. Some of my students became teachers and then their students became teachers and...

Victor (57:36.078)

You know, and this is kind of snowballed. It became big, but at the time it was a small group of people. And, you know, if you ever speak to Kwenda, it's going to tell you how hard it was to, you know, to get the people to start. And I think that's with the Kizomba UK getting the salsa people involved. Yeah. So then they started learning, listening to the music. this especially was very good. The Colosseum, you know, El Grande was very good.

as a springboard in a way because there were so many people dancing salsa. So they would go into the Kizomba room, what's this? Then they would like it, you know. So yes, I guess I was the first Kizomba teacher in the UK, but me and Kwenda, myself and Kwenda, yeah. Kwenda and I, as an English teacher, I should know better. Yeah, that's okay. Right, and he, you know.

we kind of opened the doors and then it kind of snowballed from there. And then other countries started teaching and then I started going also going abroad to teach and yeah, but it took a few years to for it to actually become what it has become now. But yes, I did my part. A lot of people did worked a lot more than I did. I just

introduced in a way I introduced Kizomba to some people. I'm not saying to the masses, but to at least some of the people and then yeah, and then it kind of snowballed and it really snowballed. It's to the point that everywhere in the world they asked Kizomba. It's grown phenomenally. It's just massive. And then I then obviously I came back, you know, and there was a...

chocolate Kizomba with Tee. He had it first at Corks, I think, and then moved to Club 229, and then he moved to Jambar, which is now B1. Is it B1? Yes, so I was there for 10 years teaching. I was one of the resident teachers along with, and funny enough, the other two teachers were my students.

Victor (59:59.534)

And this place is one of the most popular nights in London. Be at one bar so we can talk about that a bit later on. But if you ever are in London, that's a place you've got to check out. Definitely. Riquita, there's so much to unpack here. I've got so many questions for you around what you're saying here. All right, let me go back. So we're talking about teaching and then I asked you about how you got into teaching. So that's what you've explained. So I want to ask you now then in terms of teaching.

Who were some of the people that inspired you? Was there anyone that inspired you that you look at and you think, they're a great teacher, or you take things from them? You have to understand, nobody was teaching Kizomba. Every time, so it was just, okay. Okay, like I said, I used to teach just privately, one -on -one. I'd never taught groups of people, so in that sense, Kwenda had already taught in Portugal, so he already had a little bit of baggage, so he knew how to...

So I was basically in those days, I was teaching the ladies, you'd be teaching the men or the leaders. And we were just showcasing it. So I kind of took his lead in a way. So we worked together for almost a year. And then when I started doing it by myself, and I used to be so scared of public speaking. It's one thing I'm there, he's...

doing most of the work and yes, I'm explaining to the ladies, but it's another thing I am taking over. And I remember the first time he had to go on holiday or he had to go back to Portugal for like a couple of weeks and I had to take over and I was shaking. I was like, my God, I have to do this. I have to take the responsibility now. Right. And, but then once, once you do it a few times, it's like nothing. It becomes like very, very easy, but it was so hard.

Victor (01:01:56.174)

at the time to do it myself. Like I now have no issues. I'm a teacher. I have no problem with public speaking. I've taught like hundreds and like in festivals, I've taught like huge numbers of people, but it comes with confidence. Once you are confident in what you do, it's not an issue. If you're not confident, and I wasn't confident teaching by myself, teaching one person, me and you, I was fine, no problem.

teaching a group of people where everybody's like looking at you, like, okay, you're in charge, you know, you're basically in charge. It's a tough gig. Tough gig, yeah. So what I wanted to ask you then was in terms of, okay, you know, I come to one of your classes or somebody's news coming to one of your classes, you know, what can they expect from a class with Riquita? So I know that I've had some classes with you. I'm a little bit challenged when it comes to dancing. I'm not a natural dancer.

My wife is a natural dancer, she can move and do all that kind of stuff. But me, I have to learn, I don't have the natural ability of dance. So if somebody is new to dance and they're a little bit like me, what is it in your class? How do you...

Basically, what is a class like with Riquita? I'm trying to figure out. Bear in mind that most of the time that I'm teaching, I teach every level, but the majority of the times that I'm teaching, I tend to teach the higher level. So at this point, when you come to my class, you already need to know your foundation. Not everybody does though, because everybody teaches differently. And I always find it bizarre that most people will choose the least experienced person to teach beginners.

And to me, beginners should be taught by the most experienced teacher. Because the foundation, especially Kizomba, I don't know what the dance is, but with Kizomba, foundation is the key to a good dancer. You don't need to know any moves because the moves, all the saeedas, all the tricks, they, you pick it up like this. The foundation is the hardest part to learning Kizomba. Having said this, it's not difficult, but it is the more challenging part of learning Kizomba. So if you are going to have somebody teaching Kizomba.

Victor (01:04:12.238)

beginners, you need to have somebody that knows what they're doing, that knows a foundation back to front, in and out, and knows how to actually transfer it to the students, you know. So, transmit it to the students, if I will. So, to me, when it comes to my classes, if I'm already doing an intermediate class, for instance, you need to know the foundation. A lot of people don't. So, I kind of...

Because of that, as a result of that, it doesn't matter what level I'm doing. If I'm doing a high level, I'm still always going to teach the foundation. It doesn't matter. You shouldn't know already, but if you don't know, I always put, I see people and I'm not criticizing everybody. Anyone has the right to teach the way that they see fit and it works. It works. Their style works, but my style works as well. So what I don't...

particularly agree with people teaching a higher level and they only teaching tricks because Kizomba is not about the tricks that's like 30 % of the dance and not with every song we do tricks with faster -paced music mid -tempo to higher tempo something slow we don't really we just focus on the foundation so if they come to my class I will always always have the foundation in it and then I insert Kizomba because you will dance those tricks that dance

in the foundation, within the foundation. You can't just dance tricks on their own. They don't make sense. So I always have to do the foundation. Some people used to find that they saw your classes are too difficult. I said, why? They had no issues with the tricks. They had issues with the foundation. I said, but this is something that you should have already learned. When you come to my lesson, you need to know this. And for that reason, I always will teach the foundation to anybody that comes. But if I'm teaching beginners,

Obviously, it's about the music. People need to know the music, need to feel that music. And you know, there are going to be some people that are more challenged. They find it a lot more challenging to learn. So you have to be very patient. You have to be repetition, repetition. You have to repeat over and over and over again the same things. I know that some people made some of the ones that learn quite quickly, they can get a bit bored. So it's the same thing that we learn in basses if you want to be a good dancer.

Victor (01:06:29.358)

You need to repeat with anything. Repetition is key. You know, if you don't, if you just want to move up and I see a lot of students trying to move up very quickly because they think and they think they can. And I always think it's up to the teacher to tell you move up. However, not it. I understand that people doing this as a business as well. So people I've seen teachers that don't allow their students to go up and off for the correct reasons, but if they keep them.

in the beginners, the more money they're going to make. Which again, I am not a promoter. I'm a teacher. So, and this is what I like to do. I would not go into the side of promotion because I don't have the time. I don't have, you know, to me, Kizomba, I love Kizomba. Absolutely love and absolutely love teaching. I don't want to make it my life. I don't want to make it my job. To me, Kizomba teaching has always been a hobby. Yes, I think...

If I was to do this as a job, then it would take the fun out of it. Because the teaching part is the fun part. Everything that comes behind it, yes, that's what brings you a lot of stress. You know, you have to get the students, you have to do a lot of promotion, you have to, my gosh, it's a lot of work. And I know, and I take my hat out to you for all the organizers, because it is a lot of work. And it's...

work that I don't particularly want to do because I want to make to keep it fun. I want to just teach because teaching is the fun part for me because if I do it as a job, I am going to.

stop enjoying it and I don't want to stop enjoying dancing Kizomba. You love it too much. So I have my job which I also love because I'm teaching. I teach English and Portuguese. Yes, yes, yes. You were in my class. I'm trying to learn Portuguese. Challenging but yes. Yes, but again the teaching part is a fun part. Everything that comes, all the preparation that takes ages and takes a lot of work. Not to say that I'm not hard working. I'm just saying that I have a lot of work myself. I have another job.

Victor (01:08:38.221)

So I don't want to make Kizomba my job. I want to have Kizomba as something that I have fun with, fun doing. So to me, it's not a business, right? It's just to make people enjoy themselves and be happy. So when I see people keeping their students in that level for financial reasons, again, I'm not going to judge anybody. People do whatever they want. But I think, you know, you should.

If you think your student is up to go up. On the other hand, I also see teachers that sending their students to levels that they're not comfortable with yet. But again, it's a balance. It's finding, you know, yeah, it's a balance because, you know, but every teacher is different. Every teacher has their own methods of doing things. I have my method. My methods have changed. My structure of teaching has changed throughout the years because you learn more. Like when we first started teaching, I had no idea.

I mean, yes, one -on -one is different, it's totally different, but when you're teaching like groups of people where everybody's different, then you have to use differentiation. You know, any teacher will know what differentiation means. It means that not everybody's the same, not everybody learns at the same pace, so you have to change what you're doing according to each individual. Not every teacher does that. So they're like one size fits all, it doesn't.

One size doesn't fit all. So whatever you like. If I'm teaching something really complicated, but I'm like in an intermediate level, something complicated. So I try to do the complicated step, but then I try to simplify it, make it a different way. The same step, but simplified for those that find it more challenging, you know, because within any level, there's going to be different levels of, of, of learners. Right. So, a good teacher should be able to differentiate.

to cater for the needs of every student. So that's what I try to do. But I do, I've had people come to my classes, they think themselves that, yeah, because I've done salsa, it's a totally different dance. Don't come to my intermediate level if you've never done Kizomba. You need to start from the beginning. But then there's other, because so -and -so taught me this way, told me that I'm intermediate. And then you come to my intermediate class and say, no, you're not. Yeah, but I'm not gonna tell you.

Victor (01:11:01.966)

to your face, I don't know, you know, I just say, or maybe I think you should go down to the next, it's best to know this well before you move up, know it well, know your foundation really, really well, because once you know that the rest is so easy to learn, you know, but I try to be polite and diplomatic. I hope it works. Listen, I think anybody who's watching this now who is new and, you know, wanting to learn, I think this is golden. So.

try not to run before you can walk. So those basics are really, really, really important. And we've talked about this before, but you're getting it now from one of the best teachers ever. So please make sure you do your basics. The foundation of Kizomba is the key. Like you go to Angola, you go to Portugal, any Palo party.

you will see the majority of people just dancing on the foundation, on the basics. Yes, they may do a few tricks here and there, but the majority of the time they are going to concentrate on the foundation. And a lot of people say, but that's boring because you don't do, especially people that come in from salsa and from other dances. It's not, I guarantee you it's not boring when it's well -danced is the music. And it's that connection to the music. If it's well -danced, it's smooth. It's just a feel good dance, feel good. If you concentrate on steps.

and all tricks, you're not exactly, I don't see how that is that having fun because then you're just concentrating on the steps and not on the music and not on having fun. So I see a lot of people doing all these amazing tricks, but then where's the foundation? It's not there, you know, and visually it may look very appealing, but feelings wise, like they say, the Kizomba is about feeling, it's such a feeling dance that you feel something inside. So I...

I've seen dancers, even in golden dances, they're amazing visually. my God. Because nowadays, especially when it became, it turned more into Semba. And I know this is controversial. A lot of people, Semba and Kizomba are the same dance. The only thing that changes is the music. Foundation is the same. Yes, the frame, the Kizomba, we tend to have more closed frames. Semba has to be more open frames. But it's still the same dance. You know, nothing changes. It changes. The music changes. So obviously when you dance into Semba music.

Victor (01:13:26.894)

you will dance more with the same frame. All right. Although to Palo Psi doesn't really matter whether you're dancing to Samba music or Kizomba music, they dance the same. It's the same thing. So to us, there's not so much as, as that divide that's when people are, cause it came to a point then when people were dancing Samba steps, which is still Kizomba to Kizomba music, always dancing Kizomba to Samba.

no, why are you dancing like this? That's the same, but it's the same dance. Come on people. It is the same dance. It doesn't really matter to us, PALOP people, Angolan people. It doesn't matter. It's the dance that matters. It's the music that matters. You enjoy yourself. It's about enjoyment. So there's no such thing as it has to be same steps. It has to be Kizomba steps. It's the same dance. Hello. So not everybody's going to agree with me, but it is the same dance. I guarantee you. It is the same dance. Not everybody would have heard that as well. Some people would have, but not.

many people be hearing that for the first time right now? Yeah, possibly. It's the same dance. You see the foundation, the foundation is the same. Like I said, Semba was not a partner dance. It was, you know, like they say they dance in circles and then two people in the middle, they would dance like just winding down and then doing the MasSemba. But did we dance with, as partners, to Semba music? Yes, but not just to Semba music, to all other types of...

African music we used to dance like that. So it's not necessarily that is Samba. But Samba as a music for sure, it's predates quite by a lot, you know, Kizomba music for sure. So I actually lost my train of thought because I talk a lot. No problem, it's fine. It's good. You're here to talk, it's Kizomba conversations. So, okay, let me ask you a few more questions then. So, so...

What I like about you, Riquita, is when you teach, well, when you dance, actually, again, visually, and what you do, there's so many tricks that you execute, right? But the tricks, they look really good, right? And if you Google Riquita Alta, what, dancing, you'll see her dancing with a number of different people. And you've got some great people. So we have some great people like Eddie.

Victor (01:15:46.478)

Vents, Rico Suave, and Tanya, there's lots of different people that you can view you dancing with. So I don't necessarily, it's not a case of you choosing, but I just wanted to ask you, who do you really like dancing with or who connects with you quite well? Rico. Rico, okay. Rico, I mean, all, like you said, the people that you named, they're amazing dancers, all of them amazing dancers.

There's just something about Riku and I that is just so when we're dancing, and even people say this, I'm not a show person. Kizomba is a social dance. It's not a show dance. Semba, as in when they do a lot of those tricks, all the footwork, yes, can be, but again, it's the men that do the footwork. So the reason I prefer the old school Kizomba is because being within the frame, all the steps that we did were still within the frame. Yes, we were going out, but the frame stayed.

All the tricks that they do with their feet we had to do as well Right. It's like a lot harder to do old -school Kizomba than it is to do these days because yes The men do a lot of tricks but when they're doing that is when the women are outside of frame Yeah, not within the frame. So then what the women do they walk because they say when the women walk They with the beat keepers so the men do a lot of tricks and then they have to come back to the beat so they they I Get to me gets boring

I love it still, but it gets boring because all I'm doing is walking from left to right, left to right, left to right. Hello. I want to do tricks as well, footwork too. So I like to dance with the older generation, much like me, or older than me. Because whatever do the tricks they do, like all the footwork I'm doing as well. So whenever I lead, and I try to teach some of these in my classes, whenever I lead, a lot of the ladies say, my God, you're doing things that I've never.

I've never done it. And it's quite challenging because this is where you can see a good dancer, a good follower. When she can follow all those little footwork that the man does, the leader does, she'll be able to follow anyone. Right? So, and because I danced like that all my life, to me it is no, no, no problem. So Rico is like in his name, Rico Suave. Suave means soft, smooth. Right? So it's very, very, very...

Victor (01:18:13.39)

He's very smart and we just have this connection when we dance. I mean, he's had other partners and he's had amazing partners. Really, really good dancers. They are very show dancers, yeah, because they can do a show. If I do a show, I just look weird, look ridiculous because Kizomba is a social dance. So, but when I danced with him, so many people have...

commented that it's just the smoothness between us. We literally look like one person dancing and this is what Kizomba was always meant to be. Right? So I do love dancing with Riko because it's just, I feel like I don't even have to make any effort. But having said that, there's so many others that I love, love, love dancing with like Dajmara. Dajmara is like a dream dancing with. Tokosta, amazing. And Tokosta does a lot of the old school.

I love the old school. And yes, then there's Paolo Isidoro, there's Bonifacio, like all these amazing, really amazing dancers. And yes, but Rico is just whenever we dance, we just have that connection that I don't think I've had with anyone else. Yeah. But to be honest, whoever I dance with, I'm always going to connect with them. Always, because it's like, I want them to feel.

The dance is not just for me, it's for them as well. So I want them to feel like they can connect with me. I want to give them the best dance of their life. So I make myself pliable, if you will, like plasticine or something, or play dough. And I want to give them the best dance possible. So that's why...

I will adapt myself to everyone. That's why I always tell my followers, adapt yourself to their rhythm and to the way that they dance. And that's why I also each try to teach all this old school stuff. But then they go to so many other classes and they find that a little bit more challenging, so they end up not doing it. So I try to do it when I lead. To give the women, the followers, the feeling of,

Victor (01:20:24.718)

This is different, you know, this is fun. I'm telling you, old school Kizomba is the best. I swear to you. Old school, always. So with that then, Riquita, you talk about the tricks and making it feel different. Is there any move in particular that you like executing? Yeah, so that you like delivering anything come to mind? A move that you do that you like, yeah, this is me.

Well, you enjoy doing. Well, as a leader, as a leader, as a leader, it's always going to go down, go back to the foundation when I'm all that if you're doing it well and if the woman can follow. my gosh, it's a dream. But all those little intricate footwork that you make the woman do, and if she's able to follow that, that means you're doing a good job as well. Having said that, not because.

They always say if the woman makes a mistake, it's the leader's fault. I don't agree with that. I'm sorry. Okay, cool. It's not the leader. It depends on, you know, it depends. It can be, it's nobody's fault. Things happen, you know, things happen, make a mistake, smile, ha ha, go back. Continue dancing. I usually just throw my head back and laugh with abandon and then let's go back to the dance because it's about having fun, you know, you make a mistake, so what?

It's a mistake, you know, but those little intricate, just footwork, you know, playing with the chest, playing with the feet and having the women do the same. And then just following, making sure that they look like the, the literally the reflection of your, of yourself, of your movements. I mean, that's, that's, I don't require any say he does any big tricks and lifts and whatnot. Don't require that to be happy. I require.

somebody that knows the foundation well. Yeah. And if you know the foundation well, and if you know how to follow the music, music first and foremost, if you know how to follow that, I'm good. I'm happy. It's really important that people hear this and it's nice to hear as well, because you know, we were talking about before, you know, you say that sometimes people aren't ready for your lesson, depending on they'll come in. I think they're ready, but you say, no, you have to go back.

Victor (01:22:46.094)

And I think sometimes with men, a lot of that is to do with they just wanting to be good or they see maybe a Rico or somebody else who's really, really good. They just want to copy that, but they're going too far sometimes. Because let's face it with men, it's all about performance, right? I said that before, we tried to perform and make you guys happy and yeah, all that kind of stuff, right? So they want to be that guy. But I think that just hearing you say that you don't require all those crazy steps on all those...

I don't say crazy, but you know, all those fun, wild steps. Yeah, but it's just the simple things. And I hear a lot of women say that as well, because they say some of the best answers they have is just following the basics, listening to the music. It doesn't have to be that. So it's just good to hear. Well, for guys anyway, for some guys. Yeah, but like I was saying before, I've seen visually some guys, it's absolutely amazing. Yeah.

But then I'm very, I like to look at what they're doing and especially what is the woman doing? How are they leading the woman? Right? They're doing a lot of things and so every, all everybody's eyes are on the man. Everybody's forgetting the woman. So then I, if I'm going to dance with that guy, I'm going to see what does the woman, what is she doing? What are her steps? And if they tend to be just the same steps, like left to right, left to right, left to right, I don't want to dance with that person. And it's happened.

that I did dance with guys that were visually amazing, but when they danced with me, I was okay. What's that? Yeah, it's good for show. For show is good, but then what? So, and then I've danced with guys that I will always know when a guy's a good dancer or a woman's a good dancer, a couple is a good dancer, I will always know just by their foundation. If they have very good foundation, it doesn't matter if they do lots of tricks, but if their foundation is really good, it may not be visually appealing.

Cause some people say, that guy doesn't dance well. That woman doesn't because they, they are, they look stiff or they don't have that Ginga, you know, that, that natural body movement. But when you dance with them, my God, they're so good. You know, so I pay attention. I observe. So if I see that the foundation, I look at the feet, the foundation is good. I'm going to want to dance with that person. If they do a lot of tricks, but the woman is just doing the same thing all the time. Yeah. You know, it's not about what, how it looks. It's about how it feels.

Victor (01:25:07.31)

But sure. Not about how it looks, it's about how it feels. So let's remember that. Okay. Girls of wisdom. All right. Just thinking about time, right? So got a few more questions for you, Riquita, if that's okay. yes. My goodness. Look at the time. I wanted to ask you. So we've talked about Kizomba, obviously, and just how, you know, it's grown phenomenally because it's just an amazing, you know, the music gets you. So I wanted to think about, you know, how does it feel for the music?

that is part of your country, your heritage, how does it feel to you to see it just blow up like this and just to be this world phenomenal thing? What's the feeling you're getting? my gosh, it's amazing to know that something, part of my culture, that I grew up with. And that was the reason why I started teaching. Because I wanted, A, I didn't want to just dance the hashina, let's face it. And B, I wanted people to know.

what my culture was about. Yes, I was selfish in a way because I wanted people, if I'm not gonna dance like to the type of dance that I grew up with, with the PALOPs, I'm gonna dance with other people. So I'm gonna teach them. So I just wanted other people to enjoy what I enjoyed all my life, which, you know, I mean, as you know, and it's just something that you kind of, it's indescribable. You can't explain it, you know.

you have to experience it for yourself. So if you haven't done Kizomba, you are losing out. You're missing out a lot because this is amazing. It's the best. Yeah. And then building on that, what are your hopes for Kizomba for the future? That it continues growing, you know, definitely continues growing. Yes, I know there's a lot of people that, you know, there's new styles of Kizomba. Well, they call it Kizomba, but it's not Kizomba anymore, but born out of Kizomba as we know.

which does not resemble Kizomba anymore to this day. so that's kind of taking over, but Kizomba is still there and it's still growing. And I want it to continue growing. And I want people to know what the real authentic Kizomba is about, you know? And, yes, hopefully it will continue growing and, more people will get to know about it. Absolutely. They're real Kizomba. I need to emphasize that. Very important.

Victor (01:27:29.102)

Okay, no, that's amazing. That's amazing. Okay. All right. So again, we've got some people watching who probably have Googled you or seen you dance. Some know you, but then some don't. So some of these people might be thinking, you know what, I actually want to be a teacher or I want to get into teaching. So if they are thinking that, you know, what kind of advice or what would you say to them if they're wanting to become a Kizomba teacher? Know your foundation.

Do not teach without knowing music first and your foundation. If you're going to, and you have to know how to teach. So practice a lot, practice with your friends even. You know, it happens, you know, this is how I started. I was practicing teaching people that I knew, friends, and watch other teachers teaching. Watch their methods. Find out which one resonates with you, the one that you think is the best for you. You know, don't just, I had to start from scratch, from not knowing how to do it.

Right. And making lots of, lots of mistakes along the way. But now there's so many teachers out there and there are so many really, really good teachers go maybe for the, some of them are doing teacher training, you know, but again, choose a very reputable somebody that person or somebody that really knows the music really knows the, you know, the teach, how to teach. But I always say, if you are going to teach, you need to be a good dancer. You need to know how to dance. There's no point in teaching something that you don't know. You need to know how to teach.

But you need to know how to dance for the most, right? Yes, definitely. There are a lot of good teachers, good dancers out there that don't know how to teach. Teaching is a skill. But if you don't know how to dance either, what are you going to do? How are you going to teach it? So know your craft well, follow, go to teacher trainings and...

watch a lot of other teachers teaching how, what methods they use and which ones you think is best for you. And then just try, you know, but again, you want your students to be good dancers. So you don't want people along the way to say, my God, I wasted my time with this person. because I didn't know any better. You know, don't want that. You want people to, to your calling card is your students.

Victor (01:29:55.278)

Basically, if you have students that, yes, not every teacher, not every student is going to become good. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. Not just the responsibility of the teachers, the responsibility of the students to also practice and work hard, but not everybody's going to be, unfortunately, not everybody, but you can still learn. You can still learn, just apply yourself, be dedicated, and eventually you'll get there. But people sometimes fall.

by the wayside because they don't see results and then they're like, okay, I don't want to do this anymore. But no, keep going, keep going, keep going. Practice, practice, practice. Like anything in life, isn't it? Practice, practice, practice. Okay. So thank you, Riquita. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. You know how happy I am that you're here. So that's, you know, what can I say? Lots of pearls of wisdom. And it's just great to have someone of your caliber just talk to us and sit with us and be on the show. So.

Thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. But before we release you, we just want to have a few quick fire questions. the quick fire questions. But these are just fun questions. OK, so just fun questions. Something that comes up first thing. First thing that comes up. We do it. All right. So there's four cards here. I'm going to get you to pick three. Pick three. And whichever one is left, I'll try to answer it. So we'll do it one at a time. So choose one. Choose one. Let's go for this. All right. So you read it out. Read it out loud. And then give us your answer. Yeah.

What is the longest number of nights you have done Kizomba back to back? Yes. Can you remember that? I'm not sure if I can remember back to back, but I can remember the longest time that I danced eight hours nonstop with the same person. With the same person? When I say nonstop, of course the button breaks, but literally eight hours. Was that in the UK? In Portugal. In Portugal. Yes.

Wow. The dancing connection was just that good. Wow. No, mind you, I lie. I did dance to the couple of other guys when he went to the toilet. However, most of the time we just, we just, we didn't look at the time. We started early. And then by the time they finished, you know, in Portugal, they go until late. I think there was a matinee and then it just went on and continued. By the time we noticed, eight hours had gone past. I don't even think a club in London goes on for eight hours.

Victor (01:32:17.23)

I think it was a matinee and then it continued and then we kind of moved to the club next door or something because there was another party and then that's how it happened. Now nights, I don't know, a lot. I used to dance like teach like five six nights a week so. Could build up. Yeah, could be that. Well that's I think nobody's gonna, well I haven't heard of anyone breaking that record of eight hours. Yeah even I didn't even notice. Yeah. Okay.

If you were trying to sell Kizomba to a friend who has not tried it and has not seen any videos, how would you describe it to them? Bliss! Like a feeling like no other. Are you sold? Completely. There you go. Completely. Completely. Okay, which Kizomba artist or band would you love to see in concerts?

my God. Funny enough, I've never seen Bongo, which is bizarre because Bongo is such a big name. I've seen Kasab, which I've seen Yuri Daquino, one of my favourites. I even danced on stage with him. And yes, I have to put that in. And Paolo Flores, which they're like my favourite. So maybe Bongo would, I would have liked to see him in concert life, which I haven't, I haven't seen him before. Okay. Okay.

That's the one that came to mind. I've never seen him and I've never heard him in concerts. Cool. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

So the question you didn't get, this is a funny one. So the question you didn't get, right, is from, that I got, do you ever get bored of dancing Kizomba? So for me, no. I'm gonna guess, but I shouldn't assume. So do you ever get bored of dancing Kizomba, Riquita? Do you ever get bored of eating? No, I guess not. I don't think yes, right? Do you get bored of sleeping?

Victor (01:34:21.614)

I guess not. We all need this. We need to sleep. We need to eat. This is how Kizomba is. I need Kizomba to live. There you go. We couldn't have ended on a better note than that. Eat, sleep, dance. Exactly. Pretty much. There you go. Those are the three most important things in life. Where can we find you, Riquita? All right. I am not as active as I used to be.

Again, for personal reasons, job work. Now I teach in the evening, so it's very difficult for them to see me. But lately I've been teaching every week, every Saturday at Club Visu, but they've had their last night yesterday, but they're looking for another venue. Once they do, probably we'll continue there. And occasionally I teach, I'm not the resident teacher anymore at Chocolate for, because I can't physically be there, but once in a while I do still teach there.

And once in a while, I also teach at O 'Neill's at Fridays. So yeah, those are mostly happy. But I'm always happy to do private lessons because I mean, I mean, one -on -one, hey, who doesn't want that, right? But yes, not as much as I used to be because again, 20 years, literally 20 years, nonstop teaching. So it's not sure whether it's time to...

to retire, you know, but, but I will never stop teaching Kizomba. I may not teach as regularly as I normally I used to, but, I will always be here if anyone needs me. So I just wanted to ask, I'm not sure about this, but do you, because obviously we're based in London, most of us here on the podcast, but do you have any socials that people can reach you out or anything like that? Or.

Obviously, you know, I have my, if you want to reach me, I also have Instagram, Riquita Bailunda. Bailunda is the name of a tribeswoman from my hometown in Angola. Okay. And then yes, my Facebook, Riquita Alta. And places that I go like O 'Neill's on Friday for the, you know, they're going to start a new evening called Winita.

Victor (01:36:34.446)

on every Friday. And then there's like the one Sunday a month at O 'Neill's still with Adriana Neves. And then there's chocolate Kizomba on Tuesdays at B1, which I go there once in a while. And then there's others at the moment. I can't, but those are the ones that I tend to go. Obviously on the Saturday, which at the moment ended yesterday, and I do go there as well. Because with Kizomba addiction, look up Kizomba addiction and you'll find.

you'll find where they're teaching at the moment. So yes, I will continue teaching. I will always be here. And it's great. We need you here. Thank you. Thank you. It was fun. Good. Fun for me as well. So thank you very much. And as always, everyone, thank you for tuning in. Hope you had a great time today and enjoyed the show with myself and Rikki to hear. As always, we're signing out now.

but please ensure that you like, subscribe, tell us what you think about the show and the episode. So what we have to say now is keep dancing and we'll see you on the dance floor. Peace.