How to Control a Kizomba Dance Floor Without Ruining the Flow

TAKEAWAYS

• DJ Ellen's cultural roots in Suriname shaped her musical journey.

• She was influenced by Latin American music from a young age.

• Her DJ career began accidentally in 2008 at a local event.

• Ellen emphasizes the importance of feeling the music before playing it.

• She has never felt pressured in the male-dominated DJ scene.

• Building energy on the dance floor is a key focus for DJs.

• Ellen encourages more women to join the DJ community.

• She prepares for sets by arriving early to read the crowd.

• Ellen believes there's a difference in energy between male and female DJs.

• Feedback and challenges have helped her grow as a DJ. Feedback is essential for improvement in any craft.

• A perfect dance floor is filled with smiling dancers.

• DJs and dancers share equal importance in the dance experience.

• Reading the crowd is crucial for a successful DJ set.

• Kizomba has a vibrant scene in the Netherlands with many events.

• Urban Kiz is popular but won't overshadow Kizomba.

• Building a solid music collection is fundamental for DJs.

• Mixing in key creates a harmonious transition between songs.

• DJing should be passionate, harmonious, and fun.

• The Konpa genre is growing and gaining popularity.

SOUNDBITES

• "I can just feel what they are feeling."

• "We are always building up something."

• "It's important for me to be there in advance."

• "Feedback is a gift, it helps you improve."

• "A perfect dance floor is full of smiles."

• "It's about reading the crowd."

• "Urban Kiz is very popular and fresh."

• "Know your music, have a great collection."

• "Mixing in key helps blend your sets smoothly."

• "Passionate, harmonious, and fun."

TRANSCRIPT

Victor (00:00)

Hello, Kizomba friends and welcome back to another episode of Kizomba Conversations. As always, I'm your host, Victor. Today, I'm excited because we have a guest joining us who absolutely loves Kizomba. She brings the vibes, brings the passion when she's on the decks. So let's welcome DJ Ellen to Kizomba Conversations. DJ Ellen, how are you?

Ellen (00:24)

Hello Victor, I am doing absolutely fine and very happy to be here in studio together with you

Victor (00:33)

Fantastic. As always, we are always happy to have you. And we're forward to finding out about your Kizomba journey. All things Kizomba and all things music. So welcome to the podcast. No worries. We're honored to have you. where we begin on our podcast is we want to find out some background about our guests. Because yes, certain people know you.

Ellen (00:37)

Thank you.

I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Mm-hmm.

Victor (01:01)

but some people have no idea who you are. All right. So we want to find out a bit about who DJ Ellen is. And where I want to start with this one is before music, before Kizomba, just give us a taste of who you are, your background, where you grew up, all those wonderful things.

Ellen (01:04)

Okay.

Well, let's begin. In Suriname, where my roots are, we always start with ⁓ the parents. Like, who is your mom? Who is your dad? Well, so my parents are both from Surinamese descent. ⁓ My dad is full Surinamese and my mom is half Dutch, half Surinamese. So I have a little bit of Dutch blood and mostly Surinamese.

And ⁓ yeah, I grew up with ⁓ my mom and my grandmother in the Netherlands. And my dad's in Suriname, still in Suriname. most of the family from my dad's side are there. And ⁓ yeah, I am raised my Surinamese roots. I love Suriname. And ⁓ yeah, so I grew up here in the Netherlands, born in the Netherlands. ⁓

I also grew up with a lot of Latin American music, with Salsa, Merengue, and also Konpa music. Because, yes, yes, my grandmother, she used to play these songs, these really old school songs from Le Schlüschlü, Tabou Combo, and...

Victor (02:31)

Comp music, no.

Ellen (02:45)

Yeah, it's actually common in Suriname to know these songs from back in the days. And so I grew up with all of these sounds, ⁓ also with Oscar de Leon, Juan Luis Guerra and the whole Latin America array of music. And in the beginning, when I was little, I didn't feel much for it. It's just when you're in the car sitting, yeah, when you're driving with your mom and...

Victor (02:53)

Fantastic.

Ellen (03:15)

She's again playing Juan Luis Guerra and when you're little you're like, again. But then later on you're like, hey, wait a minute, this music hits differently. where my musical dance slash DJ journey began was in 1999. So there was this local event in the town where I live and I went there.

Victor (03:20)

Ha

So,

Ellen (03:44)

and I was 13 years old or something but there was a live salsa band and I saw everyone dancing salsa and I was like yeah that's what I want to do so I started to look for dance schools and the one that I grew up in was Salsipuedes in Tilburg it's ⁓ a town like half an hour from where I live

And that's how I started dancing. was 14 years old picking up salsa. At that time I was too shy ⁓ to go on my own. So I took two of my friends with me to take classes, from there on everything started. So I started with the classes and then later on they asked me to assist their classes. And so I grew into the...

dancing and teaching world. From there on, I got into contact with Zouk, Brazilian Zouk. So that was in 2003, 2004. And I love Brazilian Zouk, I love the dance. And interesting about that, I don't know if most people know, but the music that we dance on is mostly Kizomba music.

gives all my music the ghetto Zouk style from back in the days. So I already knew the sounds and I love the music, of course. back in the days, so I used to teach Brazilian Zouk and there was this really awesome couple in my dance class and they started their own socials. And they always loved the music that I played during the classes and they asked,

for fun like hey, do you wanna be our DJ because we always love your music and I was like ⁓ aha yes, I would love to do that but I have no idea what I'm going to be doing because I have no experience in DJing whatsoever. And ⁓ I tried it. So there I was with my case, with all my CDs and I remember that the first time that I did that gig back in 2008,

I made like a written sort of playlist. So I'm gonna start with this song and then the next song is gonna ⁓ fit right into the next one and so I was already trying to build up a set and it worked. Of course it had nothing to do with mixing. I just faded the songs in and out but at that time for that event or social it worked.

Victor (06:12)

Thank

Ellen (06:35)

And from there on, the DJing started because people started to listen and like, hey, do you want to be a DJ at our event? And so it started to roll. So that's a little bit of the history.

Victor (06:52)

Yeah.

Beautiful history. Lots, lots to unpack there. So the first thing is obviously where where you came from. So Suriname. So people who don't know necessarily where that is, can you just tell us on the map where that might be in terms of where you're from?

Ellen (07:07)

Suriname is in South America. It's one of the countries north of Brazil. Yes, next to Guyana. Yes, South America. Yes.

Victor (07:14)

Okay, fantastic. Yeah, okay, cool. Just so that, yeah, some people may not necessarily know that, okay. So South America, okay. And then

you talk about your influences, you know, in terms of the songs that you liked and obviously our parents, right? When we're young, we don't appreciate the music that they listen to until we get older and we're like, ooh, okay. So I totally understand that. So that's fantastic. And then, yeah, you go full circle and now you're doing, you know, kind of that stuff.

Ellen (07:31)

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Absolutely, that's the case, yes.

Yes.

Victor (07:44)

Alright,

and then interesting about how you talked about, you know, when you started, you didn't really want to get into DJing, you just had some tracks and then people say, hey, I like that music. But before we get into the DJ specifically, I want to talk to you about something that I kind of know about you. So you discovered Kizomba, if I'm not mistaken, Kizomba after seeing a demo or demonstration by Kwen da Lima and Iris de Brito.

Yeah. So two, yes, two great dancers and they were very much, know, influential in bringing Kizomba over, especially maybe to the UK, where I'm from. So Iris, I know because she was ⁓ in the UK some years ago. Kwenda Lima kind of just missed him personally. because people mention him a lot in Kizomba world, right. So what I want to find out is what was it about

Ellen (08:13)

Yes, correct.

Absolutely amazing dancing.

Yeah, yeah.

Victor (08:43)

Well, both of them, yeah. But what was it about seeing the demo that kind of, you know, pulled you deeply into Kizomba?

Ellen (08:53)

combination of a lot of things. ⁓ The demo that I saw, it had so much feeling, so much pureness from both dancers. And I was just blown away when I saw these two dancing and their whole energy and their sense of musicality.

Victor (09:01)

Yeah.

Ellen (09:22)

⁓ What hit me, what touched me is I can just feel what they are feeling when they are listening to the music and then they are bringing that together all in this very classy and sensual package and it is so refined the way that they dance over there. Yeah, so that's what I love.

effortlessly but very passionate and intense.

Victor (09:51)

Yeah.

Yeah, and I can see the passion and you know the way the feeling as you're explaining that and when we talk about Kwenda Lima you know people say that he's very earthly he's very, use the word sensual there but he's very grounded is that what you got from him in the sense of that as well?

Ellen (09:57)

Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, very much, very much. I had the wonderful opportunity to take a few of his classes and also his kaisen dance classes. ⁓ That's something I recommend for everyone, but because you really get back to your roots, your inner child. It's really a therapeutic gathering. And he...

brings out what's in all of us, the essence of being happy and to share love. And that's really amazing. That's something that you should really experience. Yeah.

Victor (10:53)

I love that, the essence of being happy. That's literally what it's all about. And that's why we do these wonderful dances that we do, especially, especially Kizomba, right? So with Kwenda Lima, he's not really on the scene so much now, because we're talking about some time ago, maybe over 10 years ago that we're talking about even longer. So in your kind of journey now, is there anybody similar?

Ellen (10:58)

Yeah.

Absolutely.

No.

Yeah.

Victor (11:20)

that maybe you can refer people to, or is that just a different time now in terms of his dancing, would you think?

Ellen (11:26)

It's a different time, but there are so many other great, dancers ⁓ who bring out their own way of... Yeah, who bring their soul into the movement, into the music and onto the dance floor, yes.

Victor (11:42)

Yeah,

absolutely. Okay, but it's just great to hear that story. And you know, obviously it brought you in and you were captivated by the movement and the way it looked and it gets us all right. So it gets us all. All right then. So go back then to DJing. All right. So it's well, you just pretty much said that you basically began DJing by accident really and truly right in around around 2008. ⁓

Ellen (11:51)

Yes, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

correct.

Victor (12:11)

So thinking back then, because obviously you've had lots of gigs since then, Thinking back to your very well, maybe not your first one, but just thinking back in general. Yeah. When did you realize to yourself that you know what? This is pretty cool. And you you start saying to yourself, I might take this DJ and being quite seriously. When did that thought become a thing for you?

Ellen (12:32)

⁓ let me see.

So if I think out loud, so I started out with Brazilian Zouk parties ⁓ and at the same time I also performed at salsa events. So I played salsa Bachata Kizomba, which I also love very deeply. ⁓ I think around 2000.

11, 12, where I was like, hey, wait a minute. Kizomba was really picking up in the Netherlands and I had the great opportunity to be one of the first in the scene when it comes to DJing for the Kizomba events. And from there on, I was like, I see...

a nice path ⁓ forming here where I can follow this DJ passion of mine. Yeah, so I think around that time it started to pick up for me. Yeah. Yeah.

Victor (13:40)

So.

I guess my question is really what hit you? What made you think that you know what this is something I really want to do? know you so with Kwenda you talk about his sensuality and his movement and everything so what was it about the DJing? Is it just your love for music or was it about how the tracks are put together or?

Ellen (14:05)

The love for music.

That's the number one because I'm very specific about songs. I try... Well, if I hear a song, need to feel it before I'm going to play it. So if I don't feel the song, I probably won't play it. Because the feeling that I get from...

a song I want to express to my audience. That's what's the main thing for me. Yeah.

Victor (14:38)

Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. And that's beautiful.

And keep doing it because we love to feel it. Bring it. it. Absolutely. Right. Yes. 100 % 100%. Okay. Beautiful. And then kind of touched on it. So, you know, you started as one of the first female Kizomba DJs in the Netherlands. Yeah. And obviously we know that DJing is very highly dominated area by men.

Ellen (14:45)

Yes, yes, I will. I always do my best,

Yeah.

Victor (15:11)

Okay, so lots of men do it. There's more female DJs coming on the scene and we definitely want that. So ladies, if you're listening and you want to get into it, keep coming, keep coming. We need you here. All right. So yeah, yeah, 100%. So what I want to find out from you then because it's such a, it's such a heavy male dominated kind of area. What were your feelings around that when you were coming in or did you not really care? You know, just didn't matter. But was there any pressure?

Ellen (15:19)

Yes.

Yes, join the team, join us. Yes, yes.

Victor (15:41)

entering a scene that's mostly, you know, have men in it. Okay.

Ellen (15:44)

not at all.

That's not how I experienced it and still not experienced that. ⁓ I think also because I was there from the beginning ⁓ and I already knew the dance scene, I know so many people and I never felt... ⁓

Pressured or like who this is a male-dominated scene or DJ scene. No, I Always felt very welcomed ⁓ As a female behind the decks so luckily for me I never had ⁓ those kind of experiences But maybe it's yeah, but maybe it's different if you want to start now and you want to get into the scene

Victor (16:23)

fans.

Great, great, that's great.

Ellen (16:38)

So that's not what I experienced because I grew up in the scene. So that's maybe a difference, but overall experience is very, very good with my male colleagues as well.

Victor (16:54)

Great, great. did you, you know, so they were all welcoming or welcoming and willing to help and all that. And did you have some mentors and you can shout them out if you want to, don't have to, it's up to you. But did you have any mentors that kind of helps you along the way in terms of building your skills and all that kind of stuff?

Ellen (17:08)

⁓

So, I did mostly myself, but my ⁓ dance teacher from back in the days, he taught me to salsa. His name is Gerald, Gerald Fry is my salsa dad. So he helped me a lot and a lot of my colleagues like ⁓ Morela Sol, Trey Beats now and yeah.

Victor (17:15)

Okay.

Okay.

Ellen (17:39)

So here and there I got great tips from my colleagues, Yeah.

Victor (17:39)

and testing.

Beautiful, beautiful.

And that's great that you have that and there was no issues around that because it's wonderful. And then just you then, obviously being a woman, do you get to see a lot of female DJs wanting to join the scene and do you mentor them and give them advice along the way?

Ellen (18:05)

I'm really happy to see that more and more females want to join our DJ family. So that's really, really positive, especially here in the Netherlands. It's really picking up. And I also see more and more females internationally joining the scene. So that's really, really a great development there. And I'm not...

Victor (18:14)

Yes.

Ellen (18:34)

into the teaching of DJing but hey if anyone has questions or I can advise them I'm always happy to share my knowledge and ⁓ tips for entering the scene or DJ wise building up music wise yeah open for that yes

Victor (18:49)

Yeah.

Fantastic.

I'm hoping for that because let's be clear, how many years is it now that you've been doing it for? What's the number?

Ellen (19:02)

It's already 16 years? Yeah, yeah, that's a long time, yeah.

Victor (19:04)

There you go. Yeah.

So anybody listening, wanting to get into the game, DJ Ellen has just offered her services in terms of mentoring and advice. So there you go. All right. Then you go. And in terms of male and female, then do you think there's a different kind of energy between the two when they're DJing or

Ellen (19:17)

Yeah, yes. Yep.

Victor (19:30)

you know, is it the same or do you think women have something different that men don't or men have something different that, you know, that women don't?

Ellen (19:36)

Yeah, I think...

I think there's a difference. I think in general, general speaking, ⁓ us females, have a more softer approach maybe. ⁓

Victor (19:45)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ellen (19:59)

whereas the male DJs might... Yeah, how do I say this?

I don't wanna, it's not that they're more aggressive, but it's a different kind of vibe. At least sometimes I hear people say, you can really hear when a female is playing or when a male DJ is playing. So there is a difference, maybe in softness versus, yeah.

I think that, yeah, yeah, there is a difference. There is a difference in general, yes, yes.

Victor (20:30)

No, understand. Yeah.

Yeah, because, you know, we've got, well, we're here. We do different things. All right. Men and women. All right. So I can understand what you're saying. And it's interesting now, because as you're speaking, when I go back now after this conversation, I'm going to because I never pay attention to this too much because I just love music. Right. However, it comes. All right. Whoever's DJ.

Ellen (20:38)

Yeah, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Victor (20:53)

But now it's a teaching moment for me because now I'm going to go back. I'm going actually listen to female. OK, what's the other thing you like? And then listen to a male and see what potential differences I can maybe notice. So it's interesting to find out. So yeah, thank you. Thank you for. Yeah, absolutely. All ⁓ right. And then what I wanted to ask you then. All right. So you dance, right?

Ellen (21:07)

Yeah, very interesting, yes.

Yes.

Victor (21:18)

You

dance very well, actually. think we shared a dance at Back to Basics a month ago. So thank you for that. Yeah. Well, thank you for putting up with my dancing. That's basically what I need to say. So we dance and we love the dance, right? So because you understand dance and you do it and different types of dance, including Konpa, which we will talk about a bit later. All right. For dancers who have never DJ, so for myself, I've never

Ellen (21:21)

Yeah.

Correct. Thank you too.

No, no, you're absolutely fine.

Victor (21:49)

know, DJed or I've made mixtapes, you know, put things in order, but not DJed, all right? So for us who dance and we don't DJ, right? We don't necessarily understand what goes on behind the decks. What's one thing you think that ⁓ people misunderstand about how a DJ builds and manages the energy on the dance floor? Because, know, we're there, we're responding to you, but we don't necessarily know what's going on.

Ellen (21:52)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yeah.

Victor (22:17)

in your mind, what's happening behind the decks and how you're keeping that energy going. And maybe telling a story as well in your tracks throughout the set. So, what don't we understand? What do we misunderstand as dancers that DJs kind of go through to bring the energy on dance floor?

Ellen (22:23)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

um Well, let me first start with um how I approach my sets. So if I have a set at a certain hour, I will always be there at least one hour in advance, if I'm not the first DJ, of course, so that I know what the previous DJ is playing and how he 

Victor (22:53)

Yep.

Ellen (23:02)

how the audience is responding to that so I can already start to get into the the the mode of okay, where am I going to go after? When I pick up after the DJ that is playing already ⁓ So I'm already starting to read the crowd so okay, what are they enjoying? What are they? ⁓ What are they showing what they love?

From there on I'm going to pick up so right after I oh When the DJ when I take over a DJ who is already playing I'm going to try to blend in as Best as I can So if he or she is playing at a high BPM, I'm probably going to continue in that Rhythm

to keep the flow going. Unless it's maybe already at the top and people are maybe tired and then you can slow down with another song. That's something you gotta feel. But I'm trying to pick up the flow and from there on I'm going to build my own flow. And I think for dancers who are just entering the scene, it's important for them to know that

Victor (24:03)

Mm-hmm.

Ellen (24:28)

we are always building up something. At least that's how I do. So sometimes maybe some dancers want to hear a certain song or a certain genre, but we are not at that point yet. So if I'm at a high BPM and someone comes to ask like, do you have like a ghetto zouk or a Tarraxinha song? Yes, of course we do, but we are going to build up to that point. So it's not like we're going from

from Tarraxinha to Semba. No, there has to be a nuance to it. sometimes it's just about listening of what the story of the DJ is telling and just going with that flow. Yeah.

Victor (24:58)

Yes.

Absolutely. Yeah.

And it's all about preparation. Like you said, you get the hour beforehand and that just gives you more time to do things. Right. So yeah, absolutely.

Ellen (25:21)

Yeah. And also

to listen to what songs have already been played because some popular songs you don't want to hear too much. if one of the DJs already played that song, I'm going to skip it.

Victor (25:35)

That's an interesting point because you know, sometimes, you know, we go out and you hear a song maybe three times. I think personally, that's a bit too much. Don't kill me saying that. But sometimes you hear a song, say, okay, you've played that already or somebody's played that already. And it's like, yeah, so are you saying that's not ideal, basically?

Ellen (25:47)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I know. I agree.

For me, no. If I know that a song has been played already, I'm not gonna play it again. If I know it. And that's why it's important for me, personally, to be there in advance. So I already know like, ⁓ this is what's already been played. Because you wanna bring something else. Because there are so many great songs, so we don't have to repeat certain songs at the same night.

Victor (26:20)

100%.

Yeah,

Well, that's good to hear. in terms of because you DJ internationally, know, do you do you find differences on the dance floor in different, you know, countries or regions? And do you have to adapt your style again to suit that? Do you find that quite often?

Ellen (26:31)

Yeah.

yeah.

Especially when it comes to Kizomba, what I notice is if you have an audience, for instance, the audience at Back to Basic, the people who come there are real Kizomba lovers and they understand the background of the music and the dance. And for us as DJs, that's just... that's just massive. So...

Victor (27:14)

Yeah.

Ellen (27:14)

whatever it is that we play they are going to pick it up and they're loving it and sometimes if you're playing at other events where the kizomba dances aren't as experienced or so-called educated when it comes to the background of the music or they are not used to knowing the music then it's

bit more challenging to play certain songs because of course as a DJ you want to bring out the culture as best as you can but if you have a crowd who don't who doesn't know or when they don't know the background it's a bit challenging and then you might have to stay with I don't want to say two commercial songs but sounds that

soothe the audience better.

Victor (28:07)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again, it's interesting to hear because these are some of the things we don't necessarily know what's going on behind you. I personally think that, I mean, obviously we love DJs, but I personally think that we don't necessarily appreciate the hard work that goes on behind the scenes for a DJ when you're doing things. So it's just that.

Ellen (28:09)

So there is a difference. There is a bit of a difference. Yeah.

Victor (28:34)

interesting and insightful to get your insights around that because we don't know where you're going. Some people just go there and think, ⁓ I want to hear great songs and that's your responsibility, right? But obviously it's your responsibility. But there's an art to it, basically, is what I'm trying to say. So it's interesting to hear. So all right. And do you ever get frustrated behind the decks at all when things maybe don't go right for you? Does that happen or has it happened?

Ellen (28:37)

Mm.

Yeah. Yes.

Yeah.

⁓

No, frustrated no, but I'm always thinking like, okay, I'm playing this song, so what song is going to fit best after this one? Because I wanna have this really nice flow going. So what I do is if I'm at one genre, I'm not gonna stay there forever. I'm just gonna.

Victor (29:27)

Yep.

Ellen (29:29)

pick it up to a next level and to a next level and ⁓ sometimes for me it's

Frustrated is not the the correct word here ⁓ But I really do my best to How do you say this? It's challenging to To think like am I going to play another song that fits in this genre or am I going to the to the other sound? Because sometimes you see that the dancers full-on going on ⁓ dancing on your

Victor (29:47)

Challenging is the word maybe.

Ellen (30:05)

on your sound but you don't want to keep it too long where people are like okay we had enough of this let's go to something else so that's the balance that I'm trying to keep like how long am I staying in one feeling and when am I going to shift to the other feeling yeah so that's that's maybe the the challenging balance that I'm always trying to find

Victor (30:25)

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah. And it is a challenge. And just on that point around challenging have. OK, so have you ever had all right? Any negative feedback that's helped you get even better? So has anybody said, ⁓ DJ Ellen, you know that wasn't so great or is there anything you know feedback in that respect from you in the past?

Ellen (30:51)

Mmm.

Let me think... I can't really think of any... Except... ⁓ Especially in the beginning of... Well, was in this period of time where Urban Kiz was getting really popular and it clashed a lot with Kizomba because you have people on this side...

Victor (31:03)

Okay. ⁓

Yeah.

Yeah. Yes.

Ellen (31:27)

We know the story. But

very sensitive subject. ⁓ And I know that there was someone who told me like, if you're DJing Kizomba, you should play by ⁓ eras. So first you start with 80s, then you go to 90s and so on and so on. So that's something that I got as feedback from a dancer.

I think that was really interesting so I listened to that but ⁓ for me it's important to keep the flow going so if a song is from the 80s or a song is from

Victor (32:06)

Yeah.

Ellen (32:10)

later on. For me it's fine as long as I bring it and it fits together and then it's fine. But I do understand that you are telling a story and there's a history behind it, yes.

Victor (32:13)

Okay.

Yeah. Okay. And thank you for sharing that. And my reason for asking the question is because personally, you know, whether it's DJing or anything in life, right? When it comes to feedback, the whole point of feedback, the whole point of it, it should be to make you better. Yeah. So, you know, people say it's, it's a gift. It actually is because the whole point of feedback is somebody telling you something and that thing is helping you to improve. So it's really, it's like,

Ellen (32:41)

Absolutely.

Victor (32:52)

It's golden. Do you know what I mean? So I'm trying to figure out what it is that you've learned that's helped to help you get your craft even better and better and better. And I think people should welcome feedback more and don't see it as a negative thing. Even though, know, when people say, I'm gonna give you a few, you're like, wait a minute. Yeah. But your mind should be like, okay, great, great. What can I take from this to make me even better? And that's whether it's DJing, anything. So.

Ellen (32:53)

Yeah, absolutely.

Yep.

Negative criticism. Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

Victor (33:22)

Thank you for sharing that because it's always great. And the other thing is sometimes we're going to have good nights, sometimes it's not going to be as good as we want, and that's just life. So it's all about learning. OK, great. And then another thing is a lot of dancers remember, so they remember incredible dance moments when they're dancing, but they rarely think about the DJ behind that.

Ellen (33:25)

Yep.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Victor (33:51)

My question here is what for you as a DJ, when you're doing your thing, you we just talked about feedback now and you're seeing the crowd and how they respond to you. What are the perfect dance floor look like for you? So DJ Ellen, you're doing your thing. What does the perfect dance floor look like for you when you look out and you see people responding? What's that like?

Ellen (34:02)

Mm-hmm.

What's that like? The dance floor is full of people who smile.

I love people who smile. Also, it depends on what you are playing because if you're playing like Gouyad, there's not much smiling going on, but at least they're enjoying. So I love ⁓ people who dance and express and feel at ease and just express. yeah, so if I see joy coming from the people and the energy,

then I'm a very, very happy, happy, happy soul. Yes. Yes.

Victor (34:53)

Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

You see smiles and joy. Okay.

Ellen (34:57)

Yeah, and everyone dancing

together. no one's standing on the side. No, everyone's on the floor. That's what makes me happy. Absolutely.

Victor (35:06)

It was an important moment. Must be a beautiful moment, by the way. And again, that

actually links back to the question before. So let me just take it back to the other side. So you've got that, right? So then what happens? Have you had feedback when somebody said to you, that was wicked, that was great? Can you remember any of that kind of feedback that you've had and how did that make you feel?

Ellen (35:26)

Yes, ⁓ yes, when

you get this type of feedback, it's just like the icing on the cake because ⁓ there's someone coming up to you really sharing what because they don't have to come up to you. But if they take the effort to come up to you and say, ⁓ thank you so much for your for your music. I enjoyed it ⁓ so much.

That's what we're here for, to make people happy, to make people happy with our selections of music together with the crowd. Yes. Because it's never only the DJ. We play an important role, but the dancers play an equally important role. So it's really the balance and the combination of the two.

Victor (36:06)

Yeah, fantastic.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure you've had many of those moments. you know, keep going onwards and upwards. So everybody just remember to smile. Smile. When DJ Ellen is playing, show us some love.

Ellen (36:30)

Smile and enjoy. Yeah, that's something

that I also hear quite often and they say like, if I'm looking at you when you're DJing, I just have to smile because you're always dancing and I'm singing along with everything. Yeah.

Victor (36:46)

Yeah.

Bring in the music.

All right. And then what do you think then separates a DJ who simply plays good music, yeah, and someone who truly is controlling the dance floor? I mean, I know you maybe touched on it before, but you know, can get people, you know, they can play and it's great, but I think there's a difference between that and actually controlling. You've talked about it a little bit, but is there anything that you can elaborate on between the two?

Ellen (37:13)

It's really about reading the crowd. Because I might be in a mood to play a certain song, but if I look at the crowd, I'm like, not yet, or maybe not at all today. So I'm...

Yeah, so it's really both ways. So I am selecting the songs, but I'm selecting them with my taste for the crowd. So I'm not playing for myself. I do enjoy what I'm playing, but I am focused on what am I seeing on the dance floor? What's happening there? So that's what I'm trying to focus on. Yeah.

Victor (37:42)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

focus on beautiful,

beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. And obviously at the top of the conversation, you told us that you you you live in the Netherlands and everything. So in terms of Kizomba then, you know, can you us a taste of what it's like in the Netherlands? You know, what's the scene like? Is it big? Is it growing? How is it and how has it been since you've been, you know, well, that's where you've lived most of your life. So what is it like in Amsterdam? Just so because this podcast is kind of, well, it's global and we just want to get a taste of

Ellen (38:26)

Global, yes.

Victor (38:28)

We're going to taste of different regions, countries, the essence of it.

Ellen (38:31)

Yeah,

yeah. Kizomba seems actually quite big in the Netherlands. There are a lot of events weekly, also during the week. We have a lot of great socials in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, but also in other cities. The bigger events we have, festivals.

And I would say Kizomba is here, but compared to urban kiz, it's a smaller community. And that's probably the case in a lot of countries. But there is like a real nice core of Kizomba minded people here in Netherlands. Yes.

Victor (39:07)

Yeah.

Beautiful.

yeah, so anybody, you know, if you're traveling, haven't been to Amsterdam or if you're looking at festivals, check out the Netherlands because there's some good events and great dancers there too as well. So just on the point you were mentioning then, do you think that, you know, I'm always going to love Kizomba. I know there's many people who are like me. Doesn't mean I don't like other styles and appreciate other styles as well because

Ellen (39:33)

Yes, yes, absolutely, yes.

Victor (39:50)

they're great and people who do them execute well. in terms of urban kiz then do you, you don't know the question is, do you think we're losing out to urban kiz? Is it taking over too much do you think? Or, you know, do you think that Kizomba has still got its place? I mean, when I say it's still got its place, do you think, my question is, do you think that urban kiz will just kind of overtake in the future?

Ellen (39:51)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

No, I don't think it's going to overtake. It's just ⁓ a difference in taste. So you're going to have people who love Kizomba, you're going to have people who love Urban Kiz, and you're going to have people who love both. ⁓ And the case is that ⁓ Urban Kiz is very popular.

Victor (40:18)

Thank

Ellen (40:41)

And it's also because it's newer, it's fresh and it's developing in a really, really high rate. When I saw Urban Kiz back in the days and when you look at it now, it's evolved so much and there are so many great dancers, so many great teachers and DJs. ⁓ It's just another style.

you're gonna have a core of urban kiz and you're gonna have a core for Kizomba so I don't think it's gonna one is gonna overtake no it's just it's just different yeah it's just different

Victor (41:18)

Yeah, beautiful. OK. Well,

in my mind, I've never overtaken. But like you say, we like what we like and it's completely fine. People are free to do whatever they want. OK, so what's on your playlist? What do you listen to ⁓ recently, currently?

Ellen (41:24)

No.

Yeah.

that

in general or kizomba on my wise

Victor (41:42)

Kizomba wise.

Ellen (41:44)

Kizomba wise ⁓ what am I listening to I have to check actually because sometimes I'm because during the day I'm listening to other styles a lot mostly R &B old-school ⁓ I love that and also my salsa music is there but what am I listening to Kizomba wise

Victor (41:50)

Okay.

Yes.

Yep.

Okay.

Ellen (42:11)

This is interesting. A DJ who has to look up what she's listening to. What am I listening to these days? Well, there's one song that I'm absolutely in love with. It's from Toni Maga, De Luanda Pra Lisboa. That's my song over there.

Victor (42:14)

Hey, it's all good. It's all good.

Yeah, so much of it.

Okay, so talk so well, I'm just making sure people can understand the correct spelling so they can read and look at it. Okay, so if you say that again, please, DJ Ellen, Toni.

Ellen (42:35)

Toni Mugga.

Yes.

Yes,

Toni Maga Toni Maga and Maga you spell it M-A-G-A Toni T-O-N-I So Toni Yes, Toni Maga and then From Luanda to Lisbon Amazing Yes

Victor (42:51)

Mm-hmm.

T-O-N-I.

Okay, so that's the song you're listening to at the moment,

Okay, that's the banger that's got you. That's the banger. Alright.

Ellen (43:10)

That's my jam. That's really my jam. Yes, it has

this feeling that goes... Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Victor (43:17)

Okay, that's the feeling we were talking about before. All right, beautiful. So I'm going to check it out after this. People listening, watching. There you go. Thank

you for you to listen to. All right then. Cool. And you just touched on it. I know, obviously it's Kizomba conversations, but yeah, so you listen to other music. So R &B, what else is, you know, that you like to listen to apart from Kizomba?

Ellen (43:40)

Of course, Konpa. A lot of Konpa music. ⁓ Salsa. I love my salsa music. ⁓ Dancehall. Yeah, yeah. Soca. Yes. I love so many musical genres,

Victor (43:52)

⁓ yeah. Hi. Part two go.

Beautiful

and it's good to have a range of music. You know, it's absolutely beautiful. All right. So, Konpa, Konpa, Konpa is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. All right. You mentioned that's another love of yours as well. So, you dance Konpa and you DJ Konpa. So, what is it about Konpa that gets you DJ, Ellen? And I'm not going to say which one do you prefer.

Ellen (44:07)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yep.

Victor (44:32)

But I'm going to just ask you, you know, how much do you enjoy Konpa?

Ellen (44:37)

⁓

Kizoma and Konpa is soul music. But there is something about Konpa music that just, it just hits you. And,

That's what I love. For me, I love the rhythm and especially the bass lines. I love good and deep bass lines. When it's in Konpa, when it's in kizomba, when it's in R &B, if I feel the bass, I am there. And especially with Konpa music, there's... It just hits differently. It just hits... Yes. Yeah.

Victor (45:00)

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just history.

Yeah. And we. Yeah, and we talk about urban kiz like we said before, getting big. Do you think I think Konpa is going to get very big personally? What do you think?

Ellen (45:22)

So I just love it. I just love it. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so too. We already see it. You already see the events growing, festivals are starting to pop up and you see it more and more around.

Victor (45:39)

Yeah.

Okay, well, I think we're have to have you back and talk about that a bit more because I know there's gonna be lots of conversation around Kizomba Konpa, because there's a lot we can get into on that. okay. All right. Okay, then. So I want to find out from you, right? So you got around 16 years experience in the game. You love it hits your soul, you know, all these wonderful things that we know about Kazama, right? And many people share. So

Ellen (45:57)

⁓ Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Victor (46:19)

Some people might be listening to this podcast or watching us here and they're thinking, you know what? I want to get into this game or I'm developing my skills as a DJ now. So what advice would you give to anybody wanting to do that? You know, get into this game and do DJing, especially to female DJs. What kind of advice would you give?

Ellen (46:42)

First of all, know your music. Really have a great collection of music. That's of course the starting point because if you don't have your music selected properly then it's gonna be a bit difficult. So have your... Have enough music, have good music, have music that you love. You need to play the music that you love.

and then you're going to incorporate that onto the dance floor. ⁓ Do your background history check about the songs you're playing, the music you're playing, the eras of Kizomba, where it comes from, so you can really tell a story when you are behind the decks. That's the most important thing.

Victor (47:37)

Beautiful.

Ellen (47:38)

and

technically what I've tried to do is mix in key so that ⁓ it sounds harmonious when you're making the switch to another song and that's also something that helps blend your sets smoothly

So mixing in key is a thing that I aim to do a lot, Yeah.

Victor (48:05)

Fantastic. So great

advice for anybody listening there. So listen to that replay it back as well. And also, you can contact DJ Ellen as well. All right, no, listen, great advice. And thank you for that DJ Ellen. Thank you for sharing, you know, your background. Yeah, there's so much we could get into. But I think this is just great for people to kind of get a sense of who you are.

Ellen (48:15)

Yes you can, yes you can.

Yeah, you're welcome.

Victor (48:32)

get some teachings, get some information. And obviously we're going to have you back later on at some point, talk about other things. No, thank you. No, thank you. where are, well, people listening, where can they find you in terms of your socials?

Ellen (48:38)

That would be amazing. I'm looking forward to that already.

On Instagram and on Facebook, Instagram is just DJ.Ellen

And on Facebook it's Ellen. If you look for DJ Ellen, you're gonna find me as well.

Victor (49:06)

And are there any projects or upcoming projects that you're working on at the moment? Or is it just DJing and different gigs throughout?

Ellen (49:12)

Yeah, DJing different gigs, yes.

Victor (49:15)

Okay,

so we can find out all about that on your pages basically. Yeah. Okay, cool. So thank you so much. It's been great. Thank you. Before we let you go, we always like to play well I say play we have a little bit of fun with some fun questions just to close out the episode. All right.

Ellen (49:19)

Yes, absolutely.

Thank you so much for having me.

Okay, cool.

Yes.

Victor (49:37)

And what we do now is we have, well, I collaborate with listeners, some people that like watching the podcast, like the podcast, and we come up with a couple of questions. So I have a question and somebody else to have a question. All right. So we have two questions here for you. All right. You're going to, you're going to answer both of them. just depends on which one you want to answer first. So is it the top one or the bottom one you're going to go for?

Ellen (49:48)

Yeah. Okay, interesting.

Let's go.

Let's

start with the top one.

Victor (50:05)

Alright then. Okay. Interesting one. Alright. So DJ Ellen says here. If dancers could hear one thing, yeah, DJs say to themselves in the booth, what would surprise them the most? Or what do you think would probably surprise them the most? The most.

Ellen (50:08)

Bring it on.

That's interesting what we would say in the booth while DJing. Like when we're alone or when we are with a colleague. In our...

Victor (50:36)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, either or. Either or. Just,

yeah.

Ellen (50:45)

Hmm

What would surprise them? Well, sometimes if we are with several DJs behind the booth and sometimes maybe they're like, ⁓ what's here to drink or something? These kind of things ⁓ or with some... Of course, we as DJs, we see what's happening on the dance floor and then we might say like,

Victor (50:47)

Yeah.

Okay.

Ellen (51:12)

We see couples forming there, couples forming in front of us. Maybe sometimes it's about those things. Sometimes it's about those things. We're just having fun. We're just having fun. Yeah.

Victor (51:14)

okay.

⁓ It's all good, it's all fun right? Absolutely, you just know your thing. Yeah, people think you're

just focusing on your music and you're looking for relationship couples. Absolutely, no it's all good. Okay, beautiful, that's fine. And then the second question here is... Okay, yeah, so if you had to describe your DJ style,

Ellen (51:29)

Yes, we have seen it all. We have seen it all.

Victor (51:48)

In three words, what would they be?

Ellen (51:53)

Aha, passionate?

Harmonious?

And the last one.

fun.

Victor (52:12)

Great. Passionate, harmonious, and fun. Yeah, and that's great. And who wouldn't want to, you who would not want to listen to a DJ who's got those traits behind them? and you know, and that brings it all the time. So that's wonderful. So yeah, beautiful. They weren't too scary those questions, were they? Right? Okay.

Ellen (52:13)

Yeah, I think that... Yes.

Thank you. No, no, they were very, very cool questions. And new questions,

questions I've never been asked before. Yeah, really, really nice, really nice. Very refreshing.

Victor (52:41)

Beautiful. That's the whole point of the conversation here. So yeah, great. But DJ Ellen,

like I say, thank you so much for joining us. It's been great to have you with us. Find out about you. And like I say, in the future, hopefully we get to have you back again soon and talk more about Kizomba and Kamba as well.

Ellen (52:57)

Looking forward to that. And thank you so much. And Konpa, a lot of Konpa, But thank you so

much for having me. It's an honor to be here in the Kizomba Conversations podcast.

Victor (53:10)

Thank you so much. Thank you. And as always, everybody listening and watching, we just want to say thank you for tuning into another episode. If you'd like to subscribe, please do. And like I always say, keep dancing and we will see you very, soon for our next episode. Peace.