Episode #7: In Conversation with Kizomba Friends: Part 1

TRANSCRIPT

Victor (00:00.00)

Hello, Kizomba enthusiasts and welcome back to another episode of Kizomba Conversations. As always, I'm your host Victor and today I'm joined by a special co -host, Hello Shaina. So today on the show, we are in conversation with friends of ours. We have Simona, we have Adel and we have Ana. Hello everyone. Hello. How are we all doing?

Great, it's so good. Kizombaras or Kizomberos, I'm just making up words. I don't even know if that is a word. But we are really super excited about having you here on the show today because we want to talk to you about all things Kizomba, talk about your journeys, why you love it so much and what keeps you coming back. Thanks for having us. Thank you. A pleasure. All right. So what we want to do is we want to start off by getting to know you pretty much. Yeah. So not so much in Kizomba.

We know you from Kizomba so myself and Shaina know you from Kizomba, but we want to find out a bit about you. How did you come to Kizomba? Did you find Kizomba or did Kizomba find you? So Adel, on the end, I'm going to get you to introduce yourself to everybody, please. Yeah, I can do it. So hi, everyone. So my name is Adel. I am from Portugal, or rather a Portuguese national, although I was born in Swaziland.

My parents are from Mozambique and I'm from an Arabic background. To answer your question about how I got into Kizomba, so My brother was the one who introduced me to it. obviously growing up in Mozambique, he was listening to the music and obviously dancing as well. We have quite a big age gap, age difference between me and him. With that said, First time I remember being exposed to Kizomba was actually in the car. He was driving around and I was in the back seat.  A little kid and listening to Kizomba. It was a lot of fun. That's how I got introduced to it. So since that moment on, I've been listening to Kizomba, but I only actually started dancing back in 2015. 

That's when I properly got into Kizomba from a dance perspective. Until then it was mostly just listening. I guess you could say I discovered true passion at that time. How old were you  in the back of the Car listening? Oh, I don't remember.

(02:20.91)

My best guess is I was probably about five or six years old. We have a 12 year age difference between myself and my brother. Back in the day he was a teen, driving around, teen stuff. And yeah, my mum probably told him, yeah, take your brother to go wherever, somewhere. Oh, what's this? I have this vague memory. It's like an image, a capture of, oh, what's this?

Even though I can't pinpoint it, can't remember the car, can't remember the scene exactly, I just have this memory in the back of my mind. And it hit you, it stuck with you all this time. Yeah. Great, fantastic. Thank you for sharing, Adel. Moving over to lovely Ana. 

So my name is Ana, I'm from Cape Verde. I was born there, but I have lived in Paris since I was two years old. So the culture moved from Cape Verde to Paris with us.

So my parents are pretty much like wherever country we're going to, I can very easily stay in the house. So the music was there, the food was there, the education was there. 

So Kizomba was everywhere I was going.  I have three brothers and I'm the only daughter.

I was not allowed to dance because it was seen as you need to sit down and do your books while the brothers are going to dance. I was not having it. You weren't having it, Ana, no? No. So sometimes I will be like, you go to Auntie and I will, you know, I hope my dad is not watching this. So I'll be going to some of my aunties, you know, the nice auntie that will take me to Kizomba. And I've learned from there.

If my dad actually found out that I've learned with those aunties, I don't think he's gonna go well. But that's how I got to learn the steps. But in the home, we were listening to Kizomba all the time. Left Paris, got here, felt a little bit lost because nobody knew about Cape Verde. According to people that don't look like I'm from Cape Verde either. So it was hard to meet people. So I started to look online and see where they were playing Kizomba. 

(04:30.754)

Then I found my people. And since then, I've got my little Paris people and  it's lovely. Great, great. So very much a family thing, Kizomba in Cape Verde. That's what you're saying? yeah, it's everywhere. You wake up Kizomba. You have another type of music called Funana, which is a different type, which is a little bit faster. But in Cape Verde, you wake up and music is there whether you like it or not.

You don't have much of a choice. You do have those that will play a certain type of music. So for example, we've had that discussion before. My dad would play his type of music. So we didn't have any say so as to which type we wanted because we were children. But my dad would literally slide on the dance floor and do all the moves you could think of. I would slowly look at the move. So he would be looking at me thinking, you better not do that. You can watch, but you can't do that. But again, you know, the aunties will save me. Yeah.

And I will go and learn and then I'll stick with it. So he's all right now with you dancing, being the girl, as you're a bit older? He doesn't know. Okay, we'll keep it like that. He doesn't know much about YouTube and the internet. But if any of my cousins, because we are quite a large family, are watching this, please do not show my dance. You heard the request. He will literally call me and say, what? So, Auntie Number One, taught you what? So that's why you went there? No, all right. Probably won't watch it. But thank you, Ana. 

And over to the wonderful Simona. Hello. So my name is Simona. I'm not from a Portuguese background. I'm half German and half Italian. And I've been living in London for a very long time. And basically, yeah, I started dancing here and I came to Kizomba via salsa. So I just love dancing. I've learned a few dances along the way. And I started dancing kizomba in 2009. yeah, it was recommended to me by a guy I was going out with at the time. So I just went to one of the clubs that was being run by Iris Debrito. And I really liked it, took some lessons and yeah, I've been dancing ever since.

(06:53.006)

I gotta ask you this question, right? Because we always get this question. So a lot of us moved to Kizomba from salsa. So many of us have done that, right? So how long were you dancing salsa for? I've been dancing salsa for over 20 years. Very, very long time. Before that, I was dancing Lombarda, Brazilian music. So yeah, I just love dancing. Yeah, I know you do. Non-stop dancing. 

Okay, so the question I'm trying to figure out is do you dance more kizomba than salsa now? I do dance more kizomba now. It's hard to say why because I do really love salsa and I wouldn't say I like one or the other better. But maybe because the scene changes over the years and maybe it's not quite the way it used to be when I first started dancing. That's maybe the reason. And then It's also maybe the friends you make, the social environment, and you only have seven days a week, Only seven. You can't dance every day, so yeah, you have to start choosing and certain things just fit better than others. Which one do you find easier, salsa or kizomba? If you had to choose?

Don't know if one is easier than the other really because yeah, whatever dance you do it's about feeling the music more than anything else.

I mean, it depends a bit to what level you're dancing as well. If you're dancing at a very basic level, then, I mean, they're both quite easy. If you want to dance at a better level, learn more steps, then obviously it becomes more complicated. Hard question to answer, then. I  guess. Yeah a little bit, just because of that. But essentially, it was the ex -boyfriend that brought you into kizomba? Yeah, kind of.

(08:58.326)

I know. Yeah. Well, it was like, I'd already heard of Kizomba and because he said, it's really nice. So you try it. I just went and yeah. And I liked it because I liked the music and I thought, yeah, this is nice so why not, I love the music, right? The music hits us. If I didn't like the music, then I wouldn't. Yeah. Because I often look at it like Argentine tango. Sorry. I hope I'm not going to offend anyone who likes tango.

I love the dance, it looks absolutely amazing, but when I hear the music it's like, no way, I'm never gonna ever dance the dance. Because I just detest the music. So the music has to speak to you, if the music doesn't speak to you then you just, can't, personally I wouldn't be able to dance it. No matter how nice it looks. Kizomba speaks to us, yes.

Have you both done any salsa or any other dances before? Kizomba? No. No? I'm a Kizomba guy through and through. Kizomba and Semba. Kizomba and Semba, of course. Yes, absolutely. Semba is okay. But just for a little while. I think I like the really old Semba that my dad used to listen to, that they are playing back now. We were talking about this just earlier. And I like the new -ish Semba. Anything in the middle sounds like a...

Highly expressed Semba, I don't like it. I don't know why.  When it's your hobby, you don't need to look at DJs, you just dance the whole night. When it's Semba, all I do is look at him and think, when are you going to change it? I just don't. I'm exactly the opposite. like the old. This is good, everyone's different, right? Really good old school. My dad used to dance like a proper show.

Do the whole move, his trousers up to here. It was so funny. We weren't allowed to laugh over his leg. But I would be like, Daddy's on a move. Like really? It was so good.  I loved it. I loved it, yeah. Fantastic, all right, so what I want to explore and talk about Kizomba and feeling, all right? 

So, if you can remember, when you first did your first class or you first got introduced to Kizomba.

(11:11.512)

What was the feeling that you got when you had your first dance or your first class? Do you remember? 

I can't say I remember.  Sorry. That's okay. That's all right. No problem. I just remember I liked the music. That's all I really wanted to hear to be honest with It's a dance. Why not? Yeah. Okay. Cool. Do you remember your feelings when you first had your first experience? 

I was scared. Okay, much like you, so I was trying to find a social gap. And the first time I went to a lesson, with Iris De Brito by the way, and there's three levels, obviously we're starting with beginners. And every now and then I could catch at the corner of my eye what the other levels were doing. Okay, that's where I want to get to. Then in the social, okay, trying to put what I just learned into practice.

I know the music, understand it, I understand the lyrics and everything. However, how do I put the two things together? So it was, for me, a little bit daunting, the very first one. However, the drive of the music and the connection, it was more than enough to overcome. By the second time, yeah, okay, now getting into it. People are also understanding, because you knew, especially as a lead then things just started to take off really well. 

I guess it's quite intimidating and you'll be able to comment on this Victor as a leader stepping in because there's the expectation that you need to know something and you're like I don't know anything and so okay side basic okay forward and back okay maybe we can open maybe not too, yeah and then there's the fear of stepping on toes.

Okay, am I doing the right thing here? It's all of that combined and you have to be on beat.  And you have to be on beat. Okay, that's a lot. Yeah, all of that combined. It's a lot. The pleasure of actually getting it right though. Yeah. Well, I have to say, sir, you've definitely got it right right now. 100%. I'm trying to learn from you. And Ana, how about you? Do you remember or was it too long ago?

13:32.422)

Well, it's family. So for my case, obviously, I've seen it around me, so it was pretty normal. How I've learned is, again, not at my house because it was not allowed. And again, I'm not a woman, so it's not something that you can just get up and shake your little, you can't do that. So if I go to my auntie's, I'll be dancing with my cousins and we'll be in a room trying to learn the steps.

I've never taken any lessons per se, but on the dance floor, if the leader is right, you just learn on the spot. That's what I like. And then I found that in England it's much more genuine and they're much more helpful. In other countries, if you don't look like you're from a certain country, for example, when I go somewhere, if they look at you, and go, she's Caribbean, she doesn't know how to dance. They don't invite you. Over here, everyone is open and I like that. We're very open to dance. yeah. Just dancing with everybody. We're all here, mixed from all different backgrounds and I love that. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Black, white, Chinese. Yeah, everyone. Yeah, love it. What keeps  you coming back? Is it the music, because we talked about the music, which is great, but is it more around, you know, like the socials, making friends, is it festivals? What keeps you coming back to Kizomba? Or is it just your weekly thing that you have to do?  

I think for my case, it would be to get rid of the stress. I don't have any family in the UK apart from my two children. So I find that for me, instead of going to Auntie, like I would have done in Paris, I would go to Kizomba on a Tuesday just to share the culture and the music.

It's nice to have somebody sharing something that I've had. Without this, I feel a little bit lost sometimes. So when I go to Paris, I'm perfectly fine. You go to road number one, auntie number one, road number two, auntie number two is there. Wherever you go, there's people from Cape Verde everywhere. So you don't feel there is no gap. You go to the market, the Sainsbury's, everyone is there. Where we're over here, people are much more to themselves. So on a Tuesday, because we all share one thing in common, when that one music comes on, everybody's like, you know? I like that, I like that. And the person in front of me is not, especially from Cape Verde, so I like that. And maybe not my age either, so I love it, I love it.

(15:50.52)

Fantastic, okay, great, great. Adel, how about you? What keeps you coming back? The connection. Connection. So a bit like what Ana's describing when that particular song comes on and I can look in that person's eyes, yeah, you know it's coming. So then we're going to dance. It's socialising without speaking. It's this connection between the two people. We were strangers. Exactly! I don't know this person's name. I recognize their faces or maybe not. And yet we know the song. We know where to play around a little bit. And It helps you melt. The energy that it just brings  any sort of stress that's gone. Get your weekly fix, huh? Yeah. 

If we get a chance once every Tuesday, we're good. Yeah. And, Simona? Yeah, definitely all that apart. it's not my culture, so it's necessarily a cultural thing. But yeah, definitely the connection and just being able to dance with another person and completely...

Yeah, matching, doing it all well together is a great feeling. And yeah, I just can't imagine not dancing, frankly. I think that would be very difficult for me because I'm so used to dancing on a regular basis. So, it's something... So, Simona loves dancing. Something I need to do. All the time. something... Yeah, it's definitely relaxing. It's the social aspect to see. It's nice to also see familiar faces and to be able to just go somewhere and you know you're going to know people. You can have a chat with people, you can dance. It's just lovely. Absolutely. I love your energy. That's why you are here. That's why you're on the podcast. I think it just opens up like a whole new world to you. And you learn about new cultures, other countries.

Victor (18:08.6)

So much more than just the music and the dancing. If you're really interested. I've travelled a lot because of the dancing, because I want to get to know the countries where it comes from and I want to know more about the people and everything else about that culture. So it's really, you know, it's not just dancing. There's so much more to it. Well, while we're on that point then, what are some of the countries that Kizomba has taken you to?

Where have you been and where have you experienced Kizomba since the time you've been dancing? 

I've been to most Palop countries. The only one that's still missing is Guinea -Bissau. That would be a good one to go to. So, yeah. I've been to Portugal, Mozambique, Angola, and Cape Verde. okay. I'm going to come back to you to ask you about what the dancing was like in Angola in a moment.  What countries? I've not been to much. So France because I grew up there for almost 20 years. Portugal because my family, some of my family are there. But otherwise, I haven't been to any other festival. I would love to.

So we've had a conversation about going to that festival in Paris, for example. I think because I knew how French people behave there, I was like, I can go anytime because I'm there all the time. So I didn't want to go. But if I find somebody that says, well, I think that festival was really good, which one was that earlier? Is that Toma Toma? Mequia. Toma Toma as well. Because sometimes the culture is a bit different. We, find

sometimes there's a lot of, let me see what you look like first before inviting you. And I don't like that. I like to share a dance with anyone, of any colour. It doesn't really matter. It's the connection and the culture that I'm looking for. So yeah, I'm looking to. Maybe explore some other places. Plenty, we're gonna get plenty for you.  

(20:31.086)

And Adel, where has it brought you over the world? So Portugal, of course, although I was from there anyway. Beyond that though, Spain, Malaga specifically. I'm taking notes. Slovakia, Bratislava, for Toma Toma and for Mekuja. And then Budapest as well. Festival That's really nice. I am Semba. Wow, Milan. That's such a great festival. And I think that's it so far.

I'm taking notes. That's right, I'm taking notes.  Bringing my shoes. I'm going, for sure. This is what we're trying to do here. Spread the word. We need some feedback. We need some feedback sometimes. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. 

How many times a week are you people out dancing?

Normally. Two or three times. Two or three times. Are you sure, Simona? I'm sure we've seen your face many times. That was everywhere. Really? Yeah, two or three times. That's the average. Yeah. Yeah. She's telling the truth, Where do you go? Tuesday? I go on Tuesdays, I go on Thursdays, and then there's usually something on the weekend. So I'll go once on the weekend or something. Beautiful. Beautiful. Who does Thursday?

It's the new night, Miro Kikola did yes, yes, yes, I've heard about it. And I like it because they play a lot of Semba. Okay, you're not going to see them there.  No, cool, all right. So, on average we're saying two with Semba. That's what we're going with, all right. Ana, how about you? I would say about twice a month. Twice a month, and then I would leave a gap. If the DJs are really good, you would see me there every Tuesday. Exactly, I've seen you on Tuesdays now? yeah, I came back here. So when I come back, you will see me all the time. If I need a little break, I will take a break and then I come back and I'll be there all the time. So if I do an average, it will probably be less than two. So let's say the DJ is good, I will go every single Tuesday. 

(22:50.412)

I don't really look up online who is DJing because I trust that Tuesday is always a good night. Sometimes it's a bit too much of a soundbite, but it's okay because I don't really need it to be done. Sometimes I just need that little boost of, you know, being back, you know, the souvenirs of my dad doing his silly stuff, uncle, auntie, you seem to care. I just need that for a moment and then I go home. Okay. It's just a little fix for that and I will too and then I'm good. Okay. So heavily depending on the DJs. Yes. Okay.

Cool, okay, how about you? So now, because I'm outside of London, and obviously after the pandemic and whatnot, on average about twice a week, depending on whether there's something happening on the weekend as well. Before that though, I was doing between three and five times a week. 

How was that? Was it just taking over you? You got work the next day or that kind of stuff? I don't care. It's the amount of energy you get from that one night out. Moments. Moments, It's just the actual work. I'm not tired on one's days. I might look different. That's excellent. Insides are good. I'm not tired, I might just look different. 

That's hilarious. So if you had, let's say less responsibilities than you all do now, you were younger, although you are all young. If you were younger, how often would you dance if you had the opportunity to? I think I would say about three. Three is a good amount because you need the day in between to rest your feet.

because those heels. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I would necessarily dance more than I do. I think three is good. You want to do other things too. And sometimes you just want to rest. Yeah. A little break. Three is a good number. Would that be the same for you? Yeah, probably about three. And then every other weekend, perhaps.

(25:11.902)

Like an afternoon social, that would be something I'd really want to have. It depends on what's on as well. Obviously, if there's something really good. Yeah, something that probably forces us to go again. You might want to be out more often, unless there's something special. Yeah. So, would you want more like afternoon socials, do you reckon? Because you mentioned that, Adel, because there's a lot of, I think now we're getting to the point, there's like, what, four or five events on a Friday night.

I guess, more afternoon, matinee socials? Yeah, one of the things I most enjoyed about festivals, for example, was the social itself, especially the ones that I mentioned. Socials are absolutely amazing because first of all, there's less of the pressure of people dressing up and whatnot for the night party. And then secondly, it was actually, as the name suggests, a little bit of a social. You get to bond with people, I've been out of London for some time now. 

As far as I know, though, there isn't anything dedicated on Saturday or Sunday. There was. There used to be one on Sundays, which was really good. But obviously, again, things change. It doesn't happen anymore. I think it would be a good idea to do an afternoon thing. No wonder. Well, I'll just leave. I'll leave it at that. There is something in the works.

You heard it here first. Okay. There is something in there. There's an opening. Yeah, there's an opening. Fantastic. Okay, good. So those, yeah, so I've been to some festivals myself and it's just a different vibe, isn't it? When you're dancing in the daytime, you would think that this is a bit weird, but actually it's really, really, really nice. 

I think they do a lot with salsa. And for some reason, Kizomba just hasn't. Yeah, they've always got salsa in the park or something. And I'm like, that would be really good. Why does nobody do that?. 

(27:29.986)

There's kizomba in the parks. There used to be at least kizomba in the parks. Yeah, but for some reason it never took off the way it's outside. And you don't have to be in a park, you can be by the river.

Yeah, I mean obviously Portugal, Spain. It's really, really nice. Yeah, but you can do it here. No, no, I'm just saying that those countries, you know, it's just easier, isn't it? Because they've got that lovely weather. But we're challenged in the UK a little bit sometimes. I totally agree with you, though. Outside, I'm all in. Maybe Kizomba in the rain.  Slippery Saida’s. Tell me about it. Could be new moves, you know. Okay, cool. All right, interesting.

So I want to be direct in this question then. So we've talked about Kizomba, some of you have mentioned Semba as well. there's a little bit of opposites here. So I kind of know the answer to this question for some of you, but what do you prefer? Kizomba, Semba, Zouk, Tarraxinha, Zouk, whatever. What's your go -to? 

I prefer Semba. Just Semba, yeah? Yeah. Okay. And what's the reason for that?

I prefer the music and I just generally prefer more upbeat music. And I think you're just able to do more. I like doing moves, doing different steps and it just allows you to do more like that. I find the slow stuff sometimes a bit worrying. Sure. No, that's... If it keeps going and... You need to mix it up. Cool.

Is that different for you, Ana? Is there a complete opposite to that? I would say Semba for the good times that I've had in the past, which I still share with all the calls in now. And I would say Kizomba for the relaxing connection bonding time. OK, cool. All right, And Adel? The go -to would probably be something in the middle.

(29:42.094)

I like to have a mix of Kizomba and Semba, for sure. I do agree with Ana though, there's a time and place for each thing, even for things like Tarraxinha, Ghetto, Zouk, Zouk in general, even Funana, for example, as well. There is a time for it? But my go -to would probably be somewhere in the middle. If I need a pick -me -up, for example, I'd be listening to a mix of Kizomba and Semba. Cool. So I guess we're a little bit different here.

Yeah, cool. How about you, Shaina? Me? Semba. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you sure it's Semba? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about you, I like each of them for different reasons, but Semba for me is, it's just, like everyone has said on the couch, dance is like therapy for everyone. So, because you go through so much in life, sometimes you just want to forget and just dance your socks off. Is there no other dance style, Shaina?

Not that I can think of, Victor. Let's keep going. All right. I'll just say, watch her episode. Kompa. There we go. Not as much. Not as much. No, there aren't that many people who can dance it, so. But It's all good. No, for me, it's Kizomba. I prefer Kizomba. But don't get me wrong, look, we've got Semba, all these other amazing dances. yeah, for me, it's Kizomba. Yeah. All right, let's talk about embarrassing moments.

All right? Okay. It's kind of shifted a little bit. Right? So basically what I mean by that is obviously we've been dancing, all of us, for a number of years and we enjoy it as we're talking about. I'm sure there's, well, I'm going to find out if there's been anything that's been embarrassing for you on the dance floor over the years. So have you, have you fallen on the floor or have you, I don't know?, been dropped when somebody was trying to do a move.

Who's willing to share anything or visit anything that's been recorded anywhere? Does it have to be Kizomba? Since we are on Kizomba Conversations, it'll be good. Any embarrassing moments on the Dance Floor? Go ahead. I think it's always going to be me. So I think it's, I can't remember who was organising what. I saw the flyer online. looked really good.

(32:10.854)

I think for us women, well for me for sure, I always ask myself what the floor is going to look like so I know what shoes I can wear. That particular place wasn't a smooth floor. My heel kept on getting stuck and I just fell over. He caught me! My legs were no longer on the floor.

It's a good thing we were in the corner, but it was so dark you can't even see on the floor. So it's only when they were playing some of the lights that you could see that there was a gap on the floor. But at the same time I'm thinking why would they not say it was obvious, But it's okay, didn't mind. I just got up and picked up my stuff. Did you style it? 

No, I don't really get embarrassed like that. I'm quite confident in myself. I just looked at him and said, we better carry on. Goodbye. They're to know me as the woman that fell. Let's Act like nothing happened and it was part of the move. That's why I'm asking. Because it's just all fun. These things are going to happen. Who cares, right? It's just fun. Well, unless you hurt yourself. But it's all fun.

And obviously I think the person that leads tends to think that it's his mistake. So I had to say, no, no, no, no, he says something on the floor because most men don't pay attention to that. So I was like, no, don't worry, it's fine. Don't worry, I didn't lose my wig. It's fine. Don't worry. Cool. All right, so you fell over. Anybody else? Any embarrassing moments?

(34:01.588)

Not in Kizomba, no. Not in Kizomba. So, none. The only one that comes to mind is in the class. And this was actually at I am Semba. There were so many people in that class. It was huge and obviously people are at different heights. And myself being short. You can see where I'm going with this. Very, very tall lady.

You can imagine when I try to look forward, what am I looking at? I love the fact that you're sharing it though. This is what it's all about. But the nice thing is she was fine about it. said, okay, I get it. You know, it's fine. And the particular step we're trying to do in the class was also not helpful, let's say. So yeah, it was a bit embarrassing, I suppose, for both of us in that sense. But thankfully, nothing of the nature of falling down.

But these things can happen and it's a bit awkward in the moment because you're dancing with a stranger, albeit you try to do a new step and then, okay. Where am I going to look so  I find myself looking up.There's so much I could say, I'm going to move swiftly on. So, Simona, you said not kizomba but any embarrassing moment is fine. Yeah. I took part once in a competition and I had this costume basically. I had the great idea to wear a bikini and then put lots of material onto the bottom of the bikini. Like it was like a skirt. But what I didn't consider is that when I start dancing and moving, obviously there's a lot of weight pulling down on the bottom. So I basically danced the whole time feeling how this bottom part was like sliding further and further down.

Thankfully it didn't come off, but yeah, it was very uncomfortable...

(36:07.768)

Thank you all for sharing. It's a bit of fun and obviously we've been dancing for years and these things are going to happen. So that's great. If you all had a Kizomba bucket list, let's say, is there anything that you would want to tick off? Like maybe a performer or a singer to see or a festival you wanted to attend?

Definitely singers, Musicians, bands, yeah. Any names? Yes, I would really love to see Puto Português. He's definitely one I would like to see. Coming to London any time soon? No. Coming to Lisbon for a festival, I might see him there. But I would really like to see a proper concert with a band and everything. Yeah. That would be really good.

Amazing. Do you know which festival? It's the Angolan Dance Festival. I've been looking at that. Someone mentioned that to me this week? Yeah. And I'm looking to go. I sought myself out to go. It's only in Lisbon, so super quick. Yes. Cool. I think I would say Gilles from Cape Verde. He's an OG. He performed... Yeah, not too long. Was it last year at the O2? No, I think it was this year.

I have ticked off one that I want to do, two actually, Mathias Damasio, watching the concert and Tabanka Jazz. I would like to attend a concert by Monteverdat, I think that would be one on the bucket list. Apart from that, it's actually doing a bit of what Simona was doing, we mentioned about going to pop -up countries and getting a feel for what it is like there.

(38:28.327)

Maybe even learn more about There's one I see on Instagram, Kizomba na Rua. yes. I really want to go there. What's the name, sorry? Kizomba na Rua. yeah. I would say you must go to Angola. If you like Kizomba, I think you have to go.

There's this guy who's really old. I don't know if he's in his 90s, he's like the professor of Kizomba. You see him and he's like, still moves as if he's 20. It's insane. He's been doing it for so long that it's just completely first nature. It's not even second nature. At 19 he's still going. It's the same, the connection. There's something about Kizomba. What is it? We're just all into it.

He's not giving up at his age, so good. It's keeping him young. For sure. I want to meet the professor. Honestly. You should invite him. Yeah, well, if you're out there. OK, so, all right, fantastic. Then we want to talk to you about the Kizomba community, all right? Because obviously we know that we know that we have made some great friends in Kizomba. We go out, we connect with people.

I've met all of you, okay, as friends, So in terms of the Kizomba community, I just want to find out from you all, how has being part of the Kizomba community impacted your lives? 

(40:08.838)

Yeah, like you say, You definitely meet a lot of people through dancing. Be it by dancing around London and meeting people, or if you go to festivals, travelling, you meet people. So, yeah, the social aspect is also very important, the fact that you can meet people and the fact that when you go out, there are always people you've seen before. So it's a very familiar crowd and yeah.

You just get to know lots of people because you keep seeing them again and again. And the other way it has, I think, impacted me is, like I said before, it's really made me want to visit certain countries, which maybe I wouldn't have necessarily exactly visited otherwise. Yeah. So it really does. Yeah, sparking interest beyond music, at least for me. So I find that really, really good. And the good thing is also when you travel to a country and you can relate to the music and you can dance, it gives you an entry into that country and to the people because you have something in common and you're no longer necessarily such a tourist. I mean, you're still a tourist, of course, but you have something that you can talk to people about and make a connection with. So it allows you a better look inside than if you just went there as a tourist and you know nothing about the music and the dancing. And I think they appreciate it... that's really nice. 

They appreciate the fact that we're trying to learn. It's easier to get to know people once you're there because you all have that in common. Yeah. And because you have something to share and to talk to them about. And then it's like, oh, great, you know, we can go out and everything so, yeah. 100%. No? Really nice. Great.  

(42:06.359)

I would say for me, as I mentioned earlier, not having no family over here, you have this crave for what you had before. So I go there to kind of fill up that gap. 

When you grow up with Kizomba, I don't know what it is with this dance, it's just in me. It's in my car, it's on my phone, it's on some of my clients ringtone if you're from Kizomba. It's there.

(42:48.14)

My best friends are from Kizomba. And a lot of the people that I know and trust are from Kizomba. So we were talking about connections from before, sharing that thing in common. Being able to go on a trip, for example, with people for a week and a half, granted for a festival, however, still being able to then interact. It's beyond just to dance well. It's really the connection of sharing this passion. So it has massively impacted to the point where when I'm thinking about organising something or even if I want to listen to particular music, put music on for a particular event, even if it's just in the background, it's going to be Kizomba. 

Exactly. So it's completely changed. It became a lifestyle. Absolutely. I think it's all a lifestyle for us, isn't it? Definitely. I quickly add something? I think when I started Kizomba and I started to meet new people, especially on a Tuesday, when I was trying.

So exactly what you're doing now, trying to find out how Kizomba started. Did pretty much the same with people that I was seeing around on a Tuesday because obviously I've seen black, white Chinese. I was like, what are you guys doing here? How did you get here? I love it. So having somebody to share that with you, knowing that it's not their culture, it's a special thing. And most of the time what they've said to me is, I can't do that at work and I can't do that with my friends.

I don't know what it is with Kizomba, but it built something in you to share that with the other people. So there is something there. So I like it's like a universal language that everyone just speaks. Ultimately, you just walk into a room and you're like, these are my people. Like, I'm now home kind of thing. 

(45:01.57)

Even though we may not necessarily speak the same languages or do the same jobs. It's just nice. I think some people have more interaction with people from Kizomba than their own colleagues at work. That’s what I've heard. They don't say,anything they just go to work. As soon as it's eight o 'clock, are we going? You have more conversations with people on the dance floor than you do with people at work.

Well, it's more fun, isn't it? 100%. So they like the environment. Sometimes, as I said, it's not just dancing. It's just being there, sharing a moment with somebody, listening to Kizomba. It makes you quite relaxed. You're comfortable with whoever is there because you have that connection. It’s quite good. Absolutely. It's nice. Absolutely.

Simona, you mentioned about the scene changing over time before, and I guess I'll extend, I'll ask you, but I'll extend it to everyone else. How has the scene changed over the years? Do you reckon? Kizomba? Yeah.

(46:17.571)

Mmm.

I don't think there's been as much of a change in Kizomba, but the change that there has been is obviously that you have Urban kiz. Yes, although in London, it hasn't had so much of an effect as in other places maybe, but it's around and that's obviously a change. And that's usually what happens with, with dances for some reason.

They're around and then somehow people start thinking, we got to change this and do it differently. And I get it. You get bored and you want to do something new. Yeah. And that's fine. But sometimes I think personally, usually when they start changing it, it's for me, goes downhill because it's not what it used to be. And I like the genuine original. I don't like this sort of transformation. Yeah. The fake kind of Europeanized whatever.I don't like it, but that's me. I know other people feel differently. They think, no, it's evolution and you have to always create and do something new. Yeah. Not a fan of urban kiz then? I'm not. 

Ana, how do you feel? I think I would go there. I wouldn't relate to, let's say if you

for example, for Cape Verde, we now have our original dish called Cachupa. So now I'm seeing on YouTube, on YouTube, that's how much I'm confused now. I'm seeing 2024 Caschupa, my version of it. I'm looking at it, I'm thinking, what the hell is that? What is this? Sorry for swearing. You didn't swear. I'm looking at it because I know what it is, what it was, what I grew up with. 

(48:15.884)

Looking at it, it doesn't do much. The same way that, for example, I said I don't like Semba, but I do like the original Semba. I looked at my dad, the moves looked good. The music was really nice. I just don't like some of the newest ones that came out. It doesn't look the same. It doesn't make me feel any way. So I think, yeah, I'll stick to the original.

Yeah, I agree 100%. I mean, the only additional thing I would add. There was a point in time when Urban Kiz was really starting to pick up quite a bit and it did create a bit of confusion for those who were coming into the scene. It's the same thing, isn't it? No, not exactly. Yeah, so that became a bit of a challenge to the point where giving an example as a lead and dancing Kizomba.

Every now and then, I would find at that time, if I'm dancing with someone who's more in tune with Urban Kiz, she'd be doing moves without being led. Hang on, what are you doing? It's not even in tune with the music. It's very disturbing in that sense. That impacted, I think, the dance. Overall, though, in terms of the community, what I think happened, and this is not specific to Urban Kiz or due to Urban  Kiz. I think with pandemic there was a bit of, there was a huge drop obviously for every type of dance. I think now Kizomba is starting to pick up because we're starting to see during the week many, many different people organising things. A year and a half ago, I don't remember that to be the case. Yeah, this is true. To be fair, when I first started there weren't that many events. I would dance four or five times a week, but I don't recall as many events as there are now.

Where literally, you know, every day of the week there is an event somewhere. Yeah, there's more now than when I started. That's true, because more people dance now.

(50:22.702)

So since we dance and we dance often, I want to ask a question for the ladies in particular. because Ana, you picked up on it earlier and you're talking about the floor and all this kind of stuff. You ladies, dance in heels, right? And we asked you the question about, and you said three nights, right? So I'm just trying to figure it out because you don't look like you're in pain when you're dancing, any of you.

Right, you don't look like it, right? It looks good. So when does the pain have to be like, that's enough, I need to stop? I don't know, it's different for everyone obviously, but dancing is not so bad. It's worse if you're standing. Standing on heels is the worst thing. So as long as you're moving, it's okay. But then it's usually at the end of the night, you're like, my God, yeah, my feet hurt. But when you're dancing, you kind of don't think about it.

Yeah. Right. I see. OK. So for us guys, we need to make sure that we ask as many girls as we can, don't leave them standing around. Exactly. That is painful. Just standing I would say a good way for you to find out is whoever you dance with, when the music stops, see how she walks from the time the music stops to her car. That would be totally me, like literally walking over to her car. Or five minutes earlier was doing all the moves you could think of. I think it was just mentally. Well, the shoes are off.

Exactly. I don't think I would change shoes. Yeah, exactly. I don't even change shoes. I just try to look pretty all the way to my car. no, it's not like that. I will stop doing that. I think I'm that age now. I think it's mentally, I will keep on dancing. As soon as it stops, I will just look at my feet and go, my God. Yeah. And when you reach home, you see the lines of the strap of the shoes. lines. It's all right. It was a good song. It's not a big deal. Good shower and everything, you're good to go.

It's worth it. It's worth it, right? Kizomba makes it worth it. And you wear the same shoes again the following Tuesday, so all good. Yeah, Pain is worth it. I just wanted to find out because you guys make you look effortless. You guys are really lucky with your flat. Yes, definitely. We're different. We can't complain, it's true. No, we can't. All right, well, apart from the pain, and you ladies already do it well, what I want to find out from you all then is...

(52:50.572)

When you go out, what makes a great night for you? So what are the ingredients that are needed for you to have a great night? Not just a good night, what needs to happen? Yeah, when you go out and you go home and you say, know what, that was, yeah, I had my fix. What is it for you? DJ. DJ? Equality in men and women. Sorry, say that again. Equality in

the balance of it. yeah. Okay. A good balance. So you're not having men standing, the women standing, everybody's enjoying themselves. Think rotation too. If you have a good night and everybody's dancing with the same person, you're just standing there. You're enjoying the time being there, but you also want to dance. I would say those three. These are the main three. Maybe the host too, because the host, sometimes you will know because one particular person is doing the hosting or creating the event. I would say those four.

Yeah, okay. No, great and yeah, absolutely. Sounds like a great night to me.

What are your thoughts? Music. If every song is good, that's... Every song? Wow. That's a bit of pressure, isn't it? I think of every song. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but you know, when you think... 80%, 80%. Wow. Every song is almost like really good. You love it. And you're dancing the whole time. Absolutely right. No standing around in pain. Yes.

Absolutely right. Okay, great, cool. Thanks, Simona. How about you? I'll give an example to illustrate exactly what Ana and Simona were saying.

(54:36.07)

One particular night, it's a slow dance. I can't remember the DJ. He's one of the top DJs in London. He played for two hours. His set was bang on, almost every song. I remember dancing an hour and a half with the same person. My God. Because it was just... That connection.

From the time you lose your words, you know. When you can't speak about it, you just know. That's the effect of Kizomba. It was great also because there were no people who were standing around waiting to dance. Okay, so everybody was enjoying it. Even though you hogged someone. Even though I hogged someone. It's true. Although it was a really long night and then after that we didn't dance again. Really? You mean an hour and half was enough?

Although I know the person, so to be fair. That would, to me, set up an example of how it was a really good night. With that said, it's, there's three main things, as you were saying, so the DJ for sure. Secondly, the vibe that's created by the people and the host and the organiser. And then number three, which is you mentioned as well, the dance floor, the actual dance floor itself, the scene, the environment, enough lighting, the right type of floor, because then you don't get people falling. But also you really get people, as a lead for example, it's really pleasurable to be able to dance and glide on the floor. And I think for the followers, that makes it a very, very really enjoyable experience. I would say the layout as well. Some of them are not quite easy for people to notice each other. So if you're in a corner nobody's going to invite you. So if you are the shy type and then you go in a corner, you will literally stay there for the whole night. Nobody's going to come to invite you. So the layout, I think, is important. So the venue, the venue. Yeah, the layout of how it and how we set up.I the only person that needs to be hidden is the DJ. We don't really need to see him but we are most likely to obviously listen and everything. But I would say the layout is important as well. 

Great, great, great. 

(56:58.51)

Shaina what's good for you on a night when you're out teaching and dancing as well? To take the teacher hat off. Music, most definitely. The dance floor, definitely. I hate when they have to put powder on the floor. It's very irritating. Because all my shoes, I have to put them in the washing machine to take off the powder. Really? Wipes isn't doing it. Alcohol does? Alcohol. I'll try that. Well, there you go. Tips as well.

Dance floor, the balance of men and women. Yeah, I hate standing around and waiting. Sometimes, especially as a teacher, I feel compelled to dance with the women. And I actually enjoy following more than anything. But because obviously you see a lot of women and you empathise and you think, no, it's like to stand on the side. So I'll give you a good dance for that time. So yeah, I'd say those three. And the organiser, not only for them being the host, but also how the organiser is as an individual will dictate the people who go to that event. So if the organiser has a bit of a wayward character, let's say, then that will be the types of individuals that you'll see attending, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Some people will go to certain events only because that one person is organising and it works well for them. So if I know a certain person is organising and I don't really appreciate that person, I'm not going, I would rather give that money to somebody that's more genuine.

It doesn't have to be from our country because we are not all mixed. So I think I would rather do that. Okay. Cool. 

So we're not asking for much are we? No, not a lot. Not much, great. So obviously there's a lot of new people coming onto the scene as we see on a weekly basis. What advice or what would you say to any new people coming to the scene?

Just dance. That's what Simoina cares about. Dance, I mean, just don't be afraid. Just go and dance. Yeah. Don't be shy. Just ask someone if you make a mistake, it doesn't matter. And everybody else should dance with beginners. I agree. 

(59:21.87)

When you can socialise first, then you get to meet one or two people, then it takes you to the party time in the evening to dance with at least that one or two person. Then you get to meet another person. Then people can see that you can do at least side to side steps. And then you get to meet more and more and get to dance more and more. I think when people go in just for the party, it's overwhelming because everybody's doing all this new move and all nice shoes and everybody's shiny.

They don't know what to do. They can look at it as it's quite confusing. However, if they go to the classes first, because obviously... Well, yeah, obviously you need to go to class, not saying just go and... Just turn up and dance. turn up one night and dance. No, but I'm saying, yeah, you do have lessons. But just go and dance. Don't think, I have to do six months of classes and only then... kind of think you have to do both at the same time and you just have to kind of go in the deep end and just go for it. Because if you always shine just doing the lesson you need to find that one person that can go and dance with. You need to practise. Otherwise, after that it will be He's not going to learn it. Yeah, I agree. The one place you do actually learn how to dance is on the dance Exactly. not in the lesson. The lesson gives you the structure so you can start understanding what to do. And you need to practise what you learn in the lesson. So it becomes muscle memory.

The two go hand in hand and take your lessons and then you go and dance. 100%. Yeah. I fully agree with what I was saying about going to the social to get to, if there is a social, getting to know people, maybe one or two people would be enough because then they'll introduce... people in the classes. Yeah. you do lessons, you meet people. then if you go dancing, you meet people. yeah. So if anybody's out there, they're looking at Kizomba and they're oh, I'm not sure, but they're dabbling in. They say, oh, maybe, I don't know.

You just say, just do it. Dancing is life. If it looks like something you're going to enjoy, just do it. Just go for it. Yeah, definitely. 100%. Okay. Don't think, just do. Exactly. If it is for you, just go and do it. It certainly speaks to us. So then, you know, we are all passionate about Kizomba. We love it and we want to spread the joy of Kizomba to as many people as we can. So what do you think then is, you know, we can do as passionate  enthusiasts to keep it growing? 

Obviously we've just mentioned it and if some people are watching now who are new, we say just dive in. But is there anything else that we can do to keep it alive? It's live, it's strong and it's great. But what else can you think, any thoughts that we can do? 

Word of mouth is already taking place. We already know that when we know good night, we're to be like, someone come on, let's go. Yeah. It was the first day one, get your shoes ready, we go in. Yeah. I will also say social media because new people always go on social media to look at what's going on, see what type of people are going to be there as well. What else? I think those will be the main two components, isn't it, for new people, especially the new generation. They do a lot of social media. They like to know what's going on first before they jump in, so I would say that, Okay, great. Yeah, obviously advertising. Yeah, just tell people about it. 

People might like dancing or already liked dancing something else. Have any of you done that? Obviously we all work. Have you mentioned it to anybody at work or is it kind of like a private thing to you? No, you've mentioned it and have any people you've told about it continued

I don't think so. Let me see here. I think they don't go the same as me because we're not in the same area, but yes they do. All right. So right now it's just kind of like your private thing for most of you, I'm guessing. So for instance, when I go to work, I don't necessarily say to people, you know, I'm a part of this community. I say I dance. Maybe they might not really like that. Okay. I don't know. 

All right. So yeah. Okay. So just keep talking about it. Social media,watch a podcast as well. Yeah. Okay. Cool. 

Shaina, anything else you want to ask these lovely guests that we have. I actually want to ask Ana, do you speak both French and Portuguese? I speak Creole because the culture moved with us. I mentioned earlier in Paris. Yeah. I speak French because I grew up there until I was 19 and 20. English because I'm here.

Portuguese, we did live there for a few months, but I think at the time because being an immigrant in that particular country, for my dad, maybe it didn't work, I can listen to it and understand most of it, but I'm most likely going to reply in Creole because that's what I've heard the most in the house. So I won't be lost if I go to Portugal, but when it comes out, sometimes I don't even know if it's Portuguese or Creole.

I get confused because it's so similar and in Spanish as well. So because I've not had one person in front of me not knowing all three and say no that's not that it's difficult all they will do is because when we was talking about this so i will say a sentence if it's not fully Creole or fully portuguese the right time that i would say something they will be polite and just go as in that's  not the word but they wont one tell me off yeah yeah but i will know by the body language that was a mess, that's similar but that's not how you pronounce it for example

But they might not say something,  and then six months later, I’m thinking about how am I going to improve if you don't? But again, it's difficult to have someone like me with all three that understands all three and say that's not, that's in Spanish or that's in Portuguese for me to improve on. But yeah, I would love to have a perfect understanding and not have people raising their eyebrows.

(01:05:54.246)

Thank you

We have some final questions for you. Okay, and these are personal, well I say personal questions, but the questions for you specifically to answer. All right, so we have some cards

And what I'm going to do is get each of you to pick one card. You're going to read the card to us and then answer. right. Simona, you're literally in front of me. You're ready. I know.  What's the question going to be? I don't know. So just read it right away. Read it out so we can all hear. 

Two people approach you to dance at the same time. You enjoy dancing with them both.

How do you decide who to dance with at that moment? That's a hard question, isn't it?

(01:07:11.458)

Well, I guess there's always going to be one that's a little bit sooner than the other. So I would just go for whoever I was quicker by one point second. Yeah, mean, otherwise, I really wouldn't know. I mean, if they're both more or less the same, I like dancing with both of them, then I'll just try and make a decision like, yeah, he was a bit faster. something like that. Yeah, that was cool. That's it. That was a tricky question.

Yeah, yeah. That's why I asked. Yeah, yeah. it happens, right? It happens very often. It happens a lot, right? It does, yeah. It's when you get asked to dance. Or maybe like if I'd already danced with one and not with the other, then maybe that would be the decision. Yeah. Like, okay, if I were to dance with you half an hour ago, so I'll go and dance with the other one. So, something like that. Yeah. Just make sure you go back to the other person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

(01:08:07.822)

I'm not really lucky with these things. These are nice questions. If you were hosting a kizomba event, ooh, I like that. You could only have one DJ. So we need to hear the question.You  have to read it out to us. my god. That's a really good question. Let us hear it then, Ana, please. I like it. If you were hosting a kizomba event, and you could only have one DJ, who would it be and why? Wow. Oh, he's going to kill me. What's his name? That's a difficult one. DJ Sousa. DJ Sousa. 150%. Yeah, it's the G -Sousa. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. 150%. So specific reasons for... He mixes a good blend of... He knows how to balance Kizomba and Semba.

He knows how when people are fed up with Semba, which many DJs don't. We love Semba by the way, just to let you know, Semba's amazing. Sometimes I find that some DJs are playing for them because I'm seeing them on the desk enjoying themselves but yet nobody's moving on the dance floor. That's what I find sometimes. Most of them, I agree with them, on Tuesdays we have a rotation of many DJs. I'm still going, that's good. But I find that some DJs listen more to the choir than others and I found that for me, he's not that much, but when he does, I'm definitely going with trainers, heels on. I mean, maybe five weeks in a row, I found that he plays really well. He knows his tribe, I would say. He's been playing for a little while, so I think he's got maybe better experience. Great. DJ Sousa. Excellent. That's for you. All right. Thank you. Adel, right at the end. 

 (01:10:07.212)

Alright, so the question is, how many friends would you say you have made over the years dancing kizomba? That's a really good question for you because you mentioned it before. How many friends? The friends that I'm still in touch with I would say somewhere between 10 and 20 people that I'm still in touch with and I still consider friends. Come and go, right? But I'd say that number is going to be somewhere between 10 and 20 people that I still consider friends. We're still in touch to this day, even though we're actually not even in the same country anymore. Yeah, so this is what Kizomba does to you, right? Opens up the door, meet great people and share great experiences. That's quite a big number as well. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite a big number. Thank you very much, Thank you very much indeed.

(01:11:07.723)

Shaina, second time.

Interesting. What would you be more drawn to? A good Kizomba house party or a good Kizomba night in the club?

I'd go with the club. I prefer a club atmosphere rather than a house party. I've not been to many good house parties. It's not a good experience. Nightclub. That's what I was going to say. It depends who's organising the house party. Exactly. I think the atmosphere will be the same. No, this is not the same. You know what it is? There's a bar in the club. There's a bar in the club. Yeah. It comes down to that. A party is going to have a bar, isn't it? I know, but it's people, drinks. Yeah, it's their drinks choices. 

No one's going to have a fully stocked fridge, it's going to run out at some point. Chocolate has a bar upstairs and as a bar downstairs. But drinking is not important when you're going dancing, is it? Well, everyone's different. So it's bad, isn't it? Everyone is different. But for you, Shaina, then so, Okay, in the club, Okay, cool. Thank you very much. So the last one is always for me.

If you had the choice of being the best DJ or the best dance teacher, which would be more appealing to you?

So I think I would be the best dance teacher simply because I love dancing. DJing is great and I love to do that as a profession, but I think it's all about being like Simona, just dancing, just doing it. So I'd really want to be a good dance teacher over being a great DJ. yeah, that's me. Interesting. 

I can see you, DJing.

You can see me DJing. That's for another topic for another time. I'm guessing you like some of my tunes or my mixes. Is that what you're saying? No, she's saying teaching. teaching, I got that wrong. Sorry. Okay, teaching. no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, that's a completely different topic. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. But listen, myself and Shaina want to say thank you very much again for joining us on the sofa here at Kizomba Kizomba Conversations Podcast.

(01:13:25.864)

We had a great time learning about your journeys and about what you like, what you don't like. So we can look at that when we go out and see you as well on the dance floor. Hopefully in the future we can have you guys back, to talk about what's happened, what's changed and what you guys are doing, where you're going, all that kind of stuff. So thank you, thank you, thank you very much. Okay. Thank you for having us. No worries, no worries. And as always, thank you very much to everybody that's tuned in.

We always like to say, you know, we want to spread the joy of Kizomba to as many people as we can reach. And like I always say, keep dancing and we'll see you on the dance floor. Peace!